Faylasoof SaaHib, I don't believe the current issue has anything remotely to do with the hamzah in words such as juz2, ajzaa2, irtiqaa2, jazaa2 and the like. In this thread, the issue raised is to do with the representation of the izaafat after vowels both short [e.g as in afsaanana(h), naala(h)] and long [as in intihaa, garmii, shoxii, taNgii and buu, juu, muu, ruu].With consonants, we know the purpose is fulfilled by simply adding a zer.
So we have a consonant + zer, the end result being ri, hi and 3i.
For an izaafat with vowels, we will end up with a vowel (short or long) + zer, i.e.
a +i, aa +i, ii +i, uu +i
Clearly, this will cause some pronunciation problems and in order to avoid this situation, a hamzah (2) acting as a kind of consonant is added before the vowels. (As you know, in Arabic, it is a consonant).
diida(h) + 2+i+tar (phir mujhe diidhah-2i-tar yaad aayaa)
saxt-jaanii-haa +2+i+tanhaa2ii (kaav-kaav-i-saxt jaanii-haa-2i-tanhaa2ii nah puuchh)
taNgii-2+i+dil (zaxm ne daad nah dii taNgii-2i-dil kii yaa rab)
buu-2+i+gul (buu-2i-gul, naalah-2i-dil, duud-i-charaaGh-i-maHfil)
Thus we end up with a situation of consonant + zer with words ending in a consonant and a consonant ( 2, hamzah)+ zer with words ending in vowels. Either way, it is consonant + zer (izaafat)
Regarding the shi3r I quoted with the word "sa3y", the fact of the matter is that this word has a fa3l pattern and the "y" (ye) at the end is a consonant. So, no hamzah is required there.
کمال ِگرمیء سعی ِتلاش ِ دید نہ پوچه
بہ رنگ ِ خار مرے آئنے سےجوہرکهینچ
kamaal-i-garmii-2i-sa3y-i-talaash-i-diid nah puuchh
yih rang-i-xaar mire aa2ine se jauhar kheNch
If we still disagree, then it is best to agree to disagree.:)
Thanks to everyone for the detailed explanations and relevant references!
Since this discussion has not come to any sort of agreement or the relevant references seem sufficient I thought I would carry out a small (re)search in order to find manuscript samples by a few of our masters. This has given me the opportunity to reconnect with hundreds of pages of Urdu literature and I am glad to introduce all of you to some specimens of it, making use of this opportunity. It seems that Mirza Ghalib either didn't feel like indicating izaafat except after alif or waaw, or perhaps that was the norm in his days but Allamah Iqbal and Amir Minai did and the following few examples illustrate their choice of representing the izaafat after the long [-ii] vowel. Moreover there are several handwritten collections of Mirza Ghalib's prose and poetry, the excerpts from prose having been taken from the collection named 'Urdu-e-mu3allaa' which I think is familiar to some of us.
Herewith I am attaching a series of small pictures, mostly representing one or two verses. Because of the restriction of maximum 5 files per post I will continue uploading in the next one. In the final post I will try to retype the contents and ascribe particular pieces to their authors.
Attachment 12025 Manuscript by Iqbal:
زندگی از گرمیٴ ذکر است و بس zindagii az garmii2-e-zikr ast-o-basAttachment 12026 Manuscript by Amir Minai:
حُرّیت از عِفت فکر است و بس Hurriyyat az 3iffat-e-fikr ast-o-bas
گُل کھِلاتی ہوئی آئی کسی دامن کی ہوا gul khilaatii hu'ii aa'ii kisii daaman kii hawaaEdit2: main issues fixed and contents added. Don't hesitate to create new threads about words or phenomena you find interesting! The next part will arrive in some other format.
لے اڑی بلبل ِ ناشاد کو گلشن کی ہوا le uRii bulbul-e-naashaad ko gulshan kii hawaa
غیرتِ باد صبا بن گئی ھے بن کی ہوا Ghairat-e-baad-e-Sabaa ban ga'ii hai ban kii hawaa
کہتی ھے مل کے گلے وادیٴ ایمن کی ہوا kahtii hai mil ke gale waadii2-e-ayman kii hawaa
Attachment 12027 Handwritten couplet of Ghalib by Sayyid Nafees Raqm (diiwaan-e-Ghaalib Hamid Ali Khan, Lahore 1969):
ہوں مَیں بھی تما شــا ئــئ نَیرنگِ تمــــنّـا
مطلب نہیں کچھ اِس سے کہ مطلب ہی بر آوے
huuN maiN bhii tamaashaa'ii2-e-nairang-e-tamannaa
matlab nahiiN kuchh is se kih matlab hii bar aawe
Attachment 12028 Handwritten passage of Ghalib's letter from "Urduu-e-mu3allaa", Dehli, 1908
چشم کشودہ اند بکردار ہائے من ۔۔۔۔ زآیندہ نااُمیدم وازرفتہ شرمسار
اب نہ فارسی کی فکر نہ اُردو کا ذکر نہ دُنیا میں توقع نہ عقبیٰ کی اُمّید ۔ مَیں ہُوں اور اندوہ ناکامئ جاوید جیسا کہ خود ایک قصیدہ نعت کی تشبیب میں کہتا ہُوں؎۔
ab nah faarsii kii fikr nah urduu kaa zikr nah dunyaa meN tawaqqu3 nah 3uqbaa kii ummiid.
maiN huuN aur andoh-e-naa-kaamii2-e-jaawiid jaisaa kih xwud ek qaSiidah na3t kii tashbiib meN kahtaa huuN:
chashm kushuudah-and ba-kirdaar-haa-ye-man ... zi-aayandah naa-umiidam va az raftah sharmsaar
Edit: due to some technical reasons please bear with me. I promise I will fix it by tomorrow.
Here is the following part of quotations from handwritten sources, as promised, with regard to the way of writing izaafat after ی:
In the next installment I will provide the texts in the same way as in post 24, with retyped Urdu text plus transliteration. Most of the couplets there are Ghalib's.
Thanks for the references marrish SaaHib.
marrish SaaHib, thank you for your painstaking work demonstrating the use of hamza after -ii by well known literary figures.
I am going to transliterate the other part of excerpts but I don't know the first word in the first shi3r (from the right side). Can somebody help me?
marrish SaaHib, the word is آبگینہ - aabgeenah tundi-e-Sahbaa' se pighlaa jaa'e haiQuote:
Originally Posted by marrish
Since you commented in another thread that you like dramatic examples, here is one from a television drama (the name of which is not coming to mind):
ذرا آبگینہ تو ادھر دینا
معاشرے میں شہرت وعزت کا مقام پانا تو شاید آسان ہو، لیکن برقرار رکھنا کافی مشکل ہو سکتا ہے چونکہ یہ اس آبگینے کی طرح نازک ہوتا ہے
Interesting, C.M.Naim in his grammar book, in section 8.11 covering the script, has
You know it happens that I skip the obvious things and go on quest of ''fault-finding'' - so what I didn't say is that hamzah is necessary otherwise zer hasn't got a place to ''hang'' on. C.M. Naim's example is perhaps the most precise one because the hamzah on its own would have no value and it needs zer - but as the practice generally goes, one does not use zer, zabar and pesh in writing, resulting in hamzah only.
More interestingly, Ruth Laila Schmidt writes in her well praised grammar that it is only zer!