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Thread: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

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    Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Are the words paTak(h)a and aatish baazi synonymous?

    I noticed some (Hindi) dictionaries give paTaka and others paTakha. My husband says it is paTaxa. So I am not sure of the standard representation, and I have heard all 3 in spoken language.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    पटाखा (paTakha) = fireworks = aatish baazi ( I think this word comes from Farsi).

    Last edited by Frank06; 23rd September 2009 at 8:23 PM.
    שתהיה לך שבת שלום || शुभम् भवतु ||

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    In Urdu: paTaaxah پَٹاخَہ (pl. pataaxeپَٹاخے ) = fire cracker.

    While <fireworks> = آتَش بازی - display of firework material, e.g. phul jhaRiyaa.n پھُل جھَڑياں , paTaaxe پَٹاخے etc. etc.
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    So are they synonymous in Hindi, but in Urdu, paTaxa denotes a fire cracker and also an explosive sound, while aatish baazi is fireworks as in the visual presentation of fire crackers?

    Interesting that in Urdu the word paTaxa has the Indic /T/ and the /X/.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    I'd disagree somewhat to your view that paTaakha denotes an explosive sound. We do say paTaakhe sunaaii dena but it actually means paTaakho.n ki aawaaze.n sunaii dena, just like we 'hear an ambulance' and not 'the sound of the blaring horns of an ambulance'...shortcuts that might confuse you a noun and a verb. I hope I didn't understand your problem wrong!

    The word for explosion is d-hamaakaa but it is used exclusively for big explosive sounds. For those of lesser magnitude we might use rather colloquial terms like chaTaakh, paTaakh, d-ham or even paTaakhe daar/numaa aawaaz. But these are all adjectives. Example: taSweer ka frame d-haRaam se farsh par aa giraa aur uska shiishaa betahaashaa mahiin chaTaakho.n ke saat-h reza reza ho rahaa.

    Note: I've used ^^^ x-h for an aspirated x sound.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Okay, thanks.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by lcfatima View Post
    Interesting that in Urdu the word paTaxa has the Indic /T/ and the /X/.
    I am also curious about this combination of retroflex consonants with typically Arabic/Persian consonats. Do we need a seperate thread for this? Interestingly, to my surprise, this word is found in "Rani Ketkii" (along with be-dhaRak, laalTainoN and table)!

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Out of my 4 dictionaries, 2 say it has an XH and two say it has a kh. The one with origin information uses kh. Platts also omits any mention of XH. I have a feeling the XH was simply added later.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    I am also curious about this combination of retroflex consonants with typically Arabic/Persian consonats. Do we need a seperate thread for this? Interestingly, to my surprise, this word is found in "Rani Ketkii" (along with be-dhaRak, laalTainoN and table)!
    I haven't read Rani Ketki in many years, but why are you surprised to see "patakhaa" in Rani Ketki?

    This consonant combination, I might add, is very common in Pashto.
    Correccions en qualsevol idioma sempre són agraïdes.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by panjabigator View Post
    I haven't read Rani Ketki in many years, but why are you surprised to see "patakhaa" in Rani Ketki?

    This consonant combination, I might add, is very common in Pashto.
    Because Insha went out of his way to exclude every Arabic/Persian word in his story. By extension, this would exclude consonants typical of these languages. Rani Ketkii and her folk would not be expected to pronounce Kh!!

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Will reply to this in PM. Don't want to go off topic.
    Correccions en qualsevol idioma sempre són agraïdes.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    patakha refers to an explosive device. atishbaazi refers to to aerial fireworks.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by lcfatima View Post
    Are the words paTak(h)a and aatish baazi synonymous?

    I noticed some (Hindi) dictionaries give paTaka and others paTakha. My husband says it is paTaxa. So I am not sure of the standard representation, and I have heard all 3 in spoken language.
    "Patakha" पटाखा (t as spoken in tomato) is a noun which is same as "aatishbazi" आतिशबाजी . "Pataka" पताका (t as spoken in 'totaa") means a flag or dhwaj.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by rahulbemba View Post
    "Patakha" पटाखा (t as spoken in tomato) is a noun which is same as "aatishbazi" आतिशबाजी ....
    Well, to be accurate there is a difference between پَٹاخَہ paTaaxa / paTaakha and آتَش بازی aatashbaazi / aatishbaazii, as has been mentioned above:
    Quote Originally Posted by Faylasoof View Post

    In Urdu: paTaaxah پَٹاخَہ (pl. pataaxeپَٹاخے ) = fire cracker.


    While <fireworks> = آتَش بازی - display of firework material, e.g. phul jhaRiyaa.n پھُل جھَڑياں , paTaaxe پَٹاخے etc. etc.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by joed View Post
    patakha refers to an explosive device. atishbaazi refers to to aerial fireworks.
    Both Colloquial Hindi and Urdu seem to use these words with a distinction as mentioned above. Urdu certainly does and from many Hindiphones I also hear the same.
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    @ Faylasoof: In Hindi, patakhaa is used for only noun, but atishbazi is used as both noun and verb.

    For example:

    आतिशबाजी में बहुत आनंद आता है. (Noun)
    वह आतिशबाजी में व्यस्त था. (Verb)

    Also, what do you mean by "Hindiphone". Sounds like some instrument or tool to force speak Hindi. Why can't you mean Hindi speakers, if you mean this - it would be more appropriate and respectful than "Hindiphone".

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by rahulbemba View Post
    @ Faylasoof: In Hindi, patakhaa is used for only noun, but atishbazi is used as both noun and verb.

    For example:

    आतिशबाजी में बहुत आनंद आता है. (Noun)
    वह आतिशबाजी में व्यस्त था. (Verb)
    To me, "aatish-baazii" appears to be a noun in both these sentences!

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    Originally Posted by rahulbemba

    @ Faylasoof: In Hindi, patakhaa is used for only noun, but atishbazi is used as both noun and verb.

    For example:

    आतिशबाजी में बहुत आनंद आता है. (Noun)
    वह आतिशबाजी में व्यस्त था. (Verb)
    To me, "aatish-baazii" appears to be a noun in both these sentences!
    I quite agree! In both, aatishbaazii is indeed a noun and not a verb!

    For the benefit of everyone, below are the Urdu equivalents and transliterations & translations into English for both languages:

    आतिशबाजी में बहुत आनंद आता है.
    aatishbaazii meN bahut aanand aataa hai

    آتشبازی میں بہت لطف آتا ہے
    aatishbaazii meN bahut luTf aataa hai

    Fireworks are very enjoyable!


    वह आतिशबाजी में व्यस्त था.
    vah aatishbaazii meN vyast thaa

    وہ آتشبازی میں مشغول \ مصروف تھا
    voh aatishbaazii meN mashghuul / maSruuf thaa

    He was busy / occupied with fireworks!


    It should be obvious what is a verb and what is a noun in the each of the sentences above.
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Faylasoof was very gentlemanly (womanly? I realize now I don't know your gender) and didn't respond to rahumbemba's reproach. To come to Faylasoof's defense, I would just point out that saying Urduphone/Hindiphone/Anglophone/etc is not at all disrespectful, and it is absolutely the standard way of referring to language speakers in a linguistics context. As a former linguist, I will absolutely attest to the fact that there is nothing inappropriate in this.

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Faylasoof View Post

    वह आतिशबाजी में व्यस्त था.
    vah aatishbaazii meN vyast thaa
    He was busy / occupied with fireworks!

    It should be obvious what is a verb and what is a noun in the each of the sentences above
    .
    It is not as obvious because your translation is not what I intended the original sentence to be; the way it was written by me.

    You write the translation as: He was busy / occupied with fireworks!

    While I wanted it to be: He was busy fireworking.

    Just like: "He was busy writing".

    In this sentence, "was writing" is used as a verb, right? It is just like I wanted it to be in "was fireworking". Your sentence "busy with fireworks" is not correct translation to my sentence in original sense, and hence the confusion.

    I am not sure if "fireworking" is a proper word - but this is where the two languages are different. Or at least are used as different. Let us accept that some times in spoken languages we use a verb as a noun and the vice versa, something which doesn't necessarily happen in each of the translated language!

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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by rahulbemba View Post
    It is not as obvious because your translation is not what I intended the original sentence to be; the way it was written by me.

    You write the translation as: He was busy / occupied with fireworks!

    While I wanted it to be: He was busy fireworking.

    Just like: "He was busy writing".

    In this sentence, "was writing" is used as a verb, right? It is just like I wanted it to be in "was fireworking". Your sentence "busy with fireworks" is not correct translation to my sentence in original sense, and hence the confusion.

    I am not sure if "fireworking" is a proper word - but this is where the two languages are different. Or at least are used as different. Let us accept that some times in spoken languages we use a verb as a noun and the vice versa, something which doesn't necessarily happen in each of the translated language!

    You seem to be confusing the use of a verb, e.g. "writing" when it is employed as a noun.

    He was busy writing.

    vuh likhne meN masruuf thaa.

    My writing to him turned out to be a mistake.

    meraa use likhnaa ek bhuul saabit hu'ii.

    Now, aatishbaazii (fire-play) is a noun through and through and however much we try to stretch it to be "fire-playing/working", it won't work!

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