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Thread: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3ashuuraa

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    Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3ashuuraa

    I heard some odd and awkward 3Ashuurah Mubaaraks this year and was wondering if there is some other traditional or appropriate expression used in greeting or to commemorate the day, in particular for Shi'a.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    That's very interesting, Fatima. I was under the impression (based on my own research with the Muharram context) that any sort of "mubaarakein" during the month of Muharram would be highly inappropriate.
    Correccions en qualsevol idioma sempre són agraïdes.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by panjabigator View Post
    I was under the impression (based on my own research with the Muharram context) that any sort of "mubaarakein" during the month of Muharram would be highly inappropriate.
    I was under the same impression: any mubaarak for such an occasion seems to me highly insensitive or uninformed.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Sunnis have a different understanding of the day, but it seems like in S. Asia until very recently, Muharram was a somber and sober time for all, and in many places there was less of a line between Shi'a and Sunni, with Sunnis also viewing Ashuurah in a similar way. (I know my mother in law describes that to be the case in her youth in Lucknow in a Sunni family.) I am not sure what is behind Ashuurah Mubaarak, but I am guessing it is coming in the same basket with Allah Hafiz and pronouncing Ramzaan as Ramadhaan. I did some googling and got some sociolinguistic answers behind Ashoura Mubarak, even from Shi'a sources, but I was wondering if there is an apt way to acknowledge the day with a greeting or expression in Urdu.
    Last edited by lcfatima; 28th November 2012 at 4:08 PM.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by lcfatima View Post
    Sunnis have a different understanding of the day, but it seems like in S. Asia until very recently, Muharram was a somber and sober time for all, and in many places there was less of a line between Shi'a and Sunni, with Sunnis also viewing Ashuurah in a similar way. (I know my mother in law describes that to be the case in her youth in Lucknow in a Sunni family.) I am not sure what is behind Ashuurah Mubaarak, but I am guessing it is coming in the same basket with Allah Hafiz and pronouncing Raamzaan as Raamadhaan. I did some googling and got some sociolinguistic answers behind Ashoura Mubarak, even from Shi'a sources, but I was wondering if there is an apt way to acknowledge the day with a greeting or expression in Urdu.
    I don't think Sunnis have a "different understanding" as for as the events at Kerbala are concerned and it indeed is a time to commemorate the tragic event to invigorate one's faith and learn lessons from it. Supplementary prayers are offered and people fast on the day of 3aashuurah.

    I don't think you meant to write "aa" in these words and neither do I feel that "3aashuurah Mubaarak" is linked to this kind of thinking.

    Here is a link which lists other events on this date and this is probably why "3aashuurah Mubaarak" term might have come into existence. I have not heard this phrase before and I too feel that despite people's best intentions, it should not be used.

    http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3307995
    Last edited by Qureshpor; 28th November 2012 at 3:41 PM.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    I am not sure what is behind Ashuurah Mubaarak,
    According to the Sunni view, it is recommended to fast in this day, to commemorate the day when Moses and his disciples were saved from Pharaoh. (Here)

    Concerning the greetings, I've also noticed that among Turks, here is a picture , Here also

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    QP: If you ask Sunnis who are fasting on the day of Ashura they will not say that it has anything to do with Karbala or Imam Husain. They will say they are fasting for the reason aisha93 mentioned: a different understanding of the significance of the day.

    Yes, I meant ramzaan.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by lcfatima View Post
    QP: If you ask Sunnis who are fasting on the day of Ashura they will not say that it has anything to do with Karbala or Imam Husain. They will say they are fasting for the reason aisha93 mentioned: a different understanding of the significance of the day.
    Yes, I meant ramzaan.
    Fasting is only part of the "understanding" and not the whole "understanding". There is more convergence on the significance of the day for both sects than divergence.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    Fasting is only part of the "understanding" and not the whole "understanding". There is more convergence on the significance of the day for both sects than divergence.
    I think this is very true historically for subcontinental Muslims. I'm not sure if the statement is ironclad true for Arab (or other non-Indo-Pak) sunnis. Not suggesting they have any anti-Karabala sentiment, but the event just doesn't seem to register as something equally substantial in their consciousness. Not commenting on the right or wrong of it, just sharing my observation.

    Kind of like Shab-baraat, which is a big deal in the subcontinent, but a complete non-event in much of the Arab world.
    Last edited by UrduMedium; 28th November 2012 at 7:16 PM.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    I think there was more Indo-Pak Sunni/Shi'a convergence historically as well. I am skeptical that this is the case so broadly today.

    So is there no greeting/expression for the day?

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    ^ No, there is no 'seasonal' greeting as far as I know.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    BTW, there's a bit of pronunciation difference on 3aashuurah between subcontinent and the Middle East too. I have noticed hearing 3aashuuraa' instead from some Arab speakers. I suspect in Urdu/Arabic script the difference will be عاشورہ vs عاشوراء. Anyone else observe this?

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by lcfatima View Post
    I think there was more Indo-Pak Sunni/Shi'a convergence historically as well. I am skeptical that this is the case so broadly today.

    So is there no greeting/expression for the day?
    Could you please clarify this point. I don't quite follow.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by lcfatima View Post
    I think there was more Indo-Pak Sunni/Shi'a convergence historically as well. I am skeptical that this is the case so broadly today.

    So is there no greeting/expression for the day?
    Since none seems to exist, I suppose we could craft one. How about ...

    yaum-i-3ashuur yasiir meaning "Have an easy day of 3ashuurah."

    Inspired by similar greetings on the long Yom Kippur fast

    Side note: 3ashuurah is historically the same as Yom Kippur, commemorating the same event, on the tenth day of the year.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by UrduMedium View Post
    Since none seems to exist, I suppose we could craft one. How about ...

    yaum-i-3ashuur yasiir meaning "Have an easy day of 3ashuurah."

    Inspired by similar greetings on the long Yom Kippur fast

    Side note: 3ashuurah is historically the same as Yom Kippur, commemorating the same event, on the tenth day of the year.
    Such a "heavy duty" word! I don't believe this!

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    Such a "heavy duty" word! I don't believe this!
    Hahaha! Thanks. Some of your 3ilmiyyat rubbing off on this aHqar, finally
    Last edited by UrduMedium; 28th November 2012 at 10:01 PM.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    I don't think this is the place to clarify my point but I will PM you, QP.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    To return to the original question. On ʻāshūrāʼ عاشورا the Shīʻa traditionally greet each other with the words yā Ḥusayn يا حسين or some phrase containing these words.


    Quote Originally Posted by UrduMedium View Post

    Side note: 3ashuurah is historically the same as Yom Kippur, commemorating the same event, on the tenth day of the year.
    The Jewish ʻāshūrāʼ is the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) on the 10th of the first Jewish month, Tishri. The Muslim and Jewish calendars are both lunar, but the Jews practice intercalation, while the Muslims do not. This means that the Muslim ʻāshūrāʼ and the Jewish ʻāshūrāʼ/Yom Kippur will fall on the same day only when Muḥarram and Tishri coincide, which is on average once in 12 years.

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    I have noticed different spellings in this thread: 3aashuuraa' and 3aashuurah. Which one is correct? Also, it might be a silly question but, UM SaaHib, you have mentioned yaum-e-3aashuur. Why is it not yaum-e-3aashuurah/3aashuuraa'?

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    Re: Urdu: Phrase/greeting to commemorate 3Ashuurah

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    I have noticed different spellings in this thread: 3aashuuraa' and 3aashuurah. Which one is correct? Also, it might be a silly question but, UM SaaHib, you have mentioned yaum-e-3aashuur. Why is it not yaum-e-3aashuurah/3aashuuraa'?
    The word in its entirety is 3aashuuraa2. However, in Urdu, the trend is to drop the final hamzah. So, the correct form is 3aashuuraa and not 3aashuurah.

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