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Thread: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

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    خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Bonsoir,

    How do you understand this sentence, please ذَاتَ يَوْمٍ لمَّا ذَهَبْنَا إِلَى خِيَّامِ البَدْوِ، خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء...ا ?
    Comment comprenez-vous cette phrase, SVP :ذَاتَ يَوْمٍ لمَّا ذَهَبْنَا إِلَى خِيَّامِ البَدْوِ، خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء...ا ?

    Merci.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    What's in red = I went out to ask for water.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson-Sky View Post
    What's in red = I went out to ask for water.
    Ok thank you.

    Can we translate "خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء" by "Tout en demandant de l'eau je suis sorti" or "je suis sorti en demandant de l'eau" ?

    What do you think ?
    Last edited by cherine; 30th December 2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Autre phrase effacée.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Bonjour,

    La phrase est: Je suis sorti demander de l'eau.


    P.S. Please don't ask about a second sentence in the same thread.
    Last edited by cherine; 30th December 2012 at 12:30 PM.
    خيرُ الكلامِ ما قلَّ ودَلّ

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    In this situation خرجت أطلب ماء is the same as خرجت لِأطلب ماء ..> no simultaneity.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson-Sky View Post
    What's in red = I went out to ask for water.
    I went out asking for water - Je suis sorti demander de l'eau.
    There's no lâm of cause (لام العلة)
    لأطلب
    So, he didn't went out excursively to ask for water.
    خرجت أطلب الماء for that reason doesn't reason the action, but it only describes it.
    Everything in this existence is false except for freedom which does not permit any kind of compromise. - Muhammad Ibn 'Abd al-Karim al-Khattabi.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighis View Post
    I went out asking for water - Je suis sorti demander de l'eau.
    There's no lâm of cause (لام العلة)
    لأطلب
    So, he didn't went out excursively to ask for water.
    خرجت أطلب الماء for that reason doesn't reason the action, but it only describes it.
    The sentence provided by the OP contains no ambiguity.
    PS : I believe you meant exclusively not excursively.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by cherine View Post
    Bonjour,

    La phrase est: Je suis sorti demander de l'eau.
    Merci c'est aussi comme cela que je la comprends.
    Quote Originally Posted by cherine View Post
    P.S. Please don't ask about a second sentence in the same thread.
    Je n'ai pas demandé la traduction d'une autre phrase, j'ai voulu expliqué la structure grammaticale de la phrase à l'aide de l'exemple que Crimson-Sky avait traduit dans l'autre fil. Je ne comprends pas pourquoi cette explication a été effacée surtout que cela me prend du temps d'écrire en anglais.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson-Sky View Post
    In this situation خرجت أطلب ماء is the same as خرجت لِأطلب ماء ..> no simultaneity.
    Yes according to the meaning of the sentence there is no simultaneity but what about the grammatical structure? Because it seems to me that the phrase "" is a "jumlah haaliyyah"/haal.

    Maybe the sentence is not correct ? And the correct sentence is خرجت لِأطلب ماء ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mighis View Post
    I went out asking for water - Je suis sorti demander de l'eau.
    There's no lâm of cause (لام العلة)
    لأطلب
    So, he didn't went out excursively to ask for water.
    خرجت أطلب الماء for that reason doesn't reason the action, but it only describes it.
    I think the sentence "Je suis sorti demander de l'eau" is equivalent to the sentence "Je suis sorti pour demander de l'eau". So the part "demander de l'eau" indicates the cause / reason for the action.

    If we consider that there is a simultaneity then we can translate it in French with a "gérondif" : "Je suis sorti en demandant de l'eau", I think that is equivalent to the sentence "I went out asking for water", right ?

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    خرجت أطلب ماء and خرجت لِأطلب ماء are both correct, grammatically speaking, though there's a slight difference between the two sentences, semantically speaking ;
    خرجت أطلب ماء : I went out to search for water ~I didn't know where the water was.
    خرجت لِأطلب ماء : I went out to ask for water ~I knew where the water was.
    PS : If someone were to confirm this i would be very appreciative .
    Last edited by Crimson-Sky; 30th December 2012 at 8:49 PM.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Nacer View Post
    Je n'ai pas demandé la traduction d'une autre phrase, j'ai voulu expliqué la structure grammaticale de la phrase à l'aide de l'exemple que Crimson-Sky avait traduit dans l'autre fil. Je ne comprends pas pourquoi cette explication a été effacée surtout que cela me prend du temps d'écrire en anglais.
    Je l'ai effacé pour éviter des doublons avec ton autre fil. Même si tu veux discuter une structure, et non une traduction, concentrons-nous ici sur la phrase citée dans le titre seulement.
    خيرُ الكلامِ ما قلَّ ودَلّ

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Grammatically speaking, أطلب ماء is a جملة حالية. The thing is that with the verb طلب, the form خرجت وأنا أطلب ماء (which is a جملة حالية = I went out seeking water) almost means the same thing as خرجت لأطلب ماء = I went out to seek water.

    However, try it with another verb:
    خرجت آكل تفاحة
    Is it خرجتُ وأنا آكل تفاحة (I went out eating an apple) or خرجتُ لآكل تفاحة (I went out to eat an apple)? They don't mean the same thing. But being a جملة حالية, the phrase خرجت آكل تفاحة means only "I went out eating an apple".

    So with خرجت أطلب ماء, you can render it the most natural way in your target language, as long as it conveys the idea clearly and doesn't confuse the reader.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Thank you very much for this useful explanation.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    In this type of sentence, phrases like "to go out" or "to look for" "to ask for" are almost like stylized "padding". They're not "wrong", but they're kind of dated, seems to me. Were I to translate this into contemporary English, I would simply say:

    ".....,I went to get some water."
    Ama Sua, Ama Llulla, Ama Qhella

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Nacer View Post
    Bonsoir,

    How do you understand this sentence, please ذَاتَ يَوْمٍ لمَّا ذَهَبْنَا إِلَى خِيَّامِ البَدْوِ، خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء...ا ?
    Comment comprenez-vous cette phrase, SVP :ذَاتَ يَوْمٍ لمَّا ذَهَبْنَا إِلَى خِيَّامِ البَدْوِ، خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء...ا ?

    Merci.
    Grammatically, your sentence is equivallent to:

    دخل الأولاد في البحر يسبحون

    The boys entered the sea to swim.

    I interpret your sentence as..

    One day when we went to the bedouin tents, I went out to look for water.

    This thread might be of some assistence to you.

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showt...T+INTO+THE+SEA

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by barkoosh View Post
    Grammatically speaking, أطلب ماء is a جملة حالية. The thing is that with the verb طلب, the form خرجت وأنا أطلب ماء (which is a جملة حالية = I went out seeking water) almost means the same thing as خرجت لأطلب ماء = I went out to seek water.

    However, try it with another verb:
    خرجت آكل تفاحة
    Is it خرجتُ وأنا آكل تفاحة (I went out eating an apple) or خرجتُ لآكل تفاحة (I went out to eat an apple)? They don't mean the same thing. But being a جملة حالية, the phrase خرجت آكل تفاحة means only "I went out eating an apple".

    So with خرجت أطلب ماء, you can render it the most natural way in your target language, as long as it conveys the idea clearly and doesn't confuse the reader.
    This is a perfect answer.

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by barkoosh View Post
    However, try it with another verb:
    خرجت آكل تفاحة
    Is it خرجتُ وأنا آكل تفاحة (I went out eating an apple) or خرجتُ لآكل تفاحة (I went out to eat an apple)? They don't mean the same thing. But being a جملة حالية, the phrase خرجت آكل تفاحة means only "I went out eating an apple".

    So with خرجت أطلب ماء, you can render it the most natural way in your target language, as long as it conveys the idea clearly and doesn't confuse the reader.
    Salut

    Yes, a possible analysis.

    In another forum, I explained to Ibn Nacer few other analyses.

    First there is no لام because the verb would be in منصوب case with فتحة, this is grammaticaly. And as you said, it have no sens.

    Other angle : خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Wa can considere 3 possibilities :

    - 2 sentences : I went out, I ask for water. Independant إعراب. We name it an apposition or a juxtaposition.

    - The fisrt past verb is a description like a حال : Went out, I ask for water... This is a participe phrase coming first, describing a statment.

    - The verb خرج beeing in the past, is distributing it toward the present verb, making it an Imparfait, special french tense but similar to an auxiliary in the past, and a following verb in the present continuous imparfait = كان + فعل مضارع.

    And last possibility, the best according to me :

    Went out, I was asking for water... means that the first verb is حال describing a statement, the second verb is a continuous tense, but with statement of past.

    The best cause "went out" is not the important action. The main action is "to ask water".

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    Re: خَرَجْتُ أَطْلُبُ مَاء

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    Grammatically, your sentence is equivallent to:

    دخل الأولاد في البحر يسبحون

    The boys entered the sea to swim.

    I interpret your sentence as..

    One day when we went to the bedouin tents, I went out to look for water.

    This thread might be of some assistence to you.

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showt...T+INTO+THE+SEA
    Thank you very much, this thread is interesting.

    Another thread : جَلَسَ وليدٌ يقرأُ باهتمامٍ قصَّةً

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