Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Native language
    American English
    Posts
    832

    Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    In dictionaries I've only seen tikkaa listed with the meaning "piece of meat"; however, in pronunciation I only hear Tikkaa, never tikkaa. For example, chicken (or murG) Tikkaa. Is tikkaa the more correct form or are they somehow completely different words?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    United States
    Native language
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Posts
    1,053

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    For me both in writing and pronunciation it has been tikkaa. The only Tikkaa I recall is the famous former General Tikkaa Khan of Pakistan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    I have always heard "Tikkaa".

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    For me, tikkaa. I'm not sure if I heard Tikkaa, leaving the instance mentioned above by UM SaaHib and the English realization of this word.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Is it tikkaa or Tikkaa? Seems to depend on more than one factor! Originally it was indeed tikkaa as the word is from Persian and that is how we say it in Urdu as well:

    P تکه tikka, s.m. A bit, piece, a mouthful; a small piece of flesh, a lump of meat, a slice, a stake, chop, collop:—tikka-boṭī karnā (-), To cut in pieces, to slice; to make mince-meat (of).

    Urduphones, the older and many younger Hindiphones too that I know still pronounce it as ‘tikkaa’. But it seems that there was a t -> T shift sometime back amongst some and now I hear both tikkaa and Tikkaa! Which is more common? Hard to say.

    As a foodie I keep a tab on recipes! If you search ‘Indian Chicken Tikka’, with added terms ‘Chef Harpal Singh Sokhi’, on youtube, you’ll repeatedly hear him say tikkaa. But if you go to 'Khana Khazana September 20 '11 Kasoori Paneer Tikka', you’ll hear chef Sanjeev Kapoor pronounce it as Tikkaa!

    Obviously all this is not statistically significant and was never meant to be. I’m just pointing out that both pronunciations can be heard; either one of these from figures who make regular public appearances.

    We always say tikkaa and I've always associated Tikkaa with the jarnail SaaHib that UM SaaHib refers to!
    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Native language
    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Posts
    9,244

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Tikkaa for me is not tikkah (piece). The former (in Punjabi) is a piece of jewellery worn by ladies on the forehead. I think the equivalent Urdu/Hindi term would be jhuumar.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    Tikkaa for me is not tikkah (piece). The former (in Punjabi) is a piece of jewellery worn by ladies on the forehead. I think the equivalent Urdu/Hindi term would be jhuumar.
    That jewelry item is Tiikaa in Hindi; we associate "jhuumar" more with chandeliers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    United States
    Native language
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Posts
    1,053

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by greatbear View Post
    That jewelry item is Tiikaa in Hindi; we associate "jhuumar" more with chandeliers.
    In Urdu also Tiikaa is used in a similar sense. It could be a stick-on variety (like a bindi) or a relatively small piece of forehead jewelry. jhuumar on the other hand, is much bigger and elaborate (hanging like a mini chandelier). Good to know jhuumar usage for chandelier in Hindi. In Urdu the popular word for chandelier is faanuus.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by UrduMedium View Post
    In Urdu also Tiikaa is used in a similar sense. It could be a stick-on variety (like a bindi) or a relatively small piece of forehead jewelry. jhuumar on the other hand, is much bigger and elaborate (hanging like a mini chandelier). Good to know jhuumar usage for chandelier in Hindi. In Urdu the popular word for chandelier is faanuus.
    Yes indeed UM SaaHIb! Tiikaa is the word in Urdu too for this piece of jewellery. There is of course jhuumar as well, which, as you suggest, is bigger and more ornate. BTW, in our Urdu a chandelier is a jhaaR:

    H جهاڙ झाड़ jhāR [S. झाटः], s.m. A bush, shrub; bushes, bramble, brushwood, scrub, underwood, brake; a kind of arabesque work; a lustre or chandelier; ....
    (You can see that Platts also mentions lustre as a meaning. As for faanuus, we associate this with a special kind of lamp.)

    [... and jhuumar we normally associate with these meanings: H جهومر झूमर jhūmar [S. क्षुभ+रः; cf. S. झुमरिः], s.m. A gathering, assembly, company, band; a company of women dancing; .....—an ornament consisting of a number of chains forming a fringe, which is attached to the top-knot (of a woman's head) and falls on the forehead.]

    Needless to say, the t -> T shift and the change in the 'i' vowel length, together with an unstressed or stressed ‘k’ produce huge differences in meanings: tikkaa (a small piece [of flesh]) versus Tikkaa and Tiikaa (piece of jewellery) going from Punjabi (former) to Urdu/Hindi (latter).
    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    Tikkaa for me is not tikkah (piece). The former (in Punjabi) is a piece of jewellery worn by ladies on the forehead. I think the equivalent Urdu/Hindi term would be jhuumar.
    QP SaaHib, I have heard Tikkaa from my Punjabi friends for what we call Tiikaa, and they distinguish it from tikkaa. Incidentally, we use Tiikaa also for vaccination, as well as for the naturally occurring white mark on the forehead of animals like goats, buffaloes, cows and horses!
    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In a teapot
    Native language
    English USA
    Posts
    1,344

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    I think Tiika is in the part of the hair and falls in the center of the forehead (some also call it maang Tiika) and jhuumar is suspended slightly to the side and falls to the side of the forehead or the side of the head.

    Curious, for those who say chicken tikka, do you say aaluu ki tikki or aaluu ki Tikki? What about like for soap, saabun ki Tikki?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by lcfatima View Post
    I think Tiika is in the part of the hair and falls in the center of the forehead (some also call it maang Tiika) and jhuumar is suspended slightly to the side and falls to the side of the forehead or the side of the head.

    Curious, for those who say chicken tikka, do you say aaluu ki tikki or aaluu ki Tikki? What about like for soap, saabun ki Tikki?
    Ah! There is a difference in tikkaa (small piece), and a Tikiyaa or, for some, Tikkii. So for the flat bread / soap bar / it is ٿکيا टिकिया Tikiyaa, i.e. the flat bread we have with aluu is ٿکيا टिकियाTikiyaa / Tikki. Very different from tikkaa, as in murGh (chicken) tikkaa!
    (Yes, the Tiikaa can refer to the lock of hair that falls on the forehead but we also use the same for the white spot found on the forehead of some cattle and horse - not relevant for a white horse or goat of course!)

    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Karachi
    Native language
    Urdu
    Posts
    2,097

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    It is tikkah in Urdu as the others have already answered, but I'd simply like to conjecture that tikkah became Tikka when it went to London!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by Faylasoof View Post
    Incidentally, we use Tiikaa also for vaccination, as well as for the naturally occurring white mark on the forehead of animals like goats, buffaloes, cows and horses!
    Yes, for us as well. "Tiikaa" is also the commonly used word for tilak. (Also refer http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/phi...:1:5820.platts). The word has yet another sense: (permanent, fixed) abode; many places in the Himalayas bear this suffix, indicating the place to be an abode of God.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Native language
    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Posts
    9,244

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by Faylasoof View Post
    BTW, in our Urdu a chandelier is a jhaaR:

    H جهاڙ झाड़ jhāR [S. झाटः], s.m. A bush, shrub; bushes, bramble, brushwood, scrub, underwood, brake; a kind of arabesque work; a lustre or chandelier; ....
    khelnaa aataa hai ham ko bhii shikaar
    par nahiiN zaahid ko'ii TaTTii kii aaR

    dil nahiiN raushan to haiN kis kaam ke
    sau shabistaaN meN agar raushan haiN jhaaR

    Hali

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Native language
    American English
    Posts
    832

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    khelnaa aataa hai ham ko bhii shikaar
    par nahiiN zaahid ko'ii TaTTii kii aaR

    dil nahiiN raushan to haiN kis kaam ke
    sau shabistaaN meN agar raushan haiN jhaaR

    Hali
    For the word in bold, I only know of one meaning, lol. Is that what's meant here too?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    ^ Ha, ha, I'm afraid it has another meaning, a fence.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Native language
    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Posts
    9,244

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine9 View Post
    For the word in bold, I only know of one meaning, lol. Is that what's meant here too?
    "TaTTii" is a thatched screen. There is an idiom.."TaTTii kii aaR meN shikaar khelnaa" with the meaning "adopting underhand means".

    With the art and skills of hunting we are familiar
    But O Zaahid, there is no screen to provide cover

    If the hearts are not enlightened, then what use are
    A hundred bed chambers with illuminated chandeliers

    "Zaahid" is one of the characters in the classical Ghazal and stands for a religiously devout individual, representing the orthodoxy.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    United States
    Native language
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Posts
    1,053

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    "TaTTii" is a thatched screen.
    Is this the same as xas kii TaTTii?
    Last edited by UrduMedium; 19th January 2013 at 6:14 AM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Hindi/Urdu: tikkaa vs. Tikkaa

    ^ Yes, but let us get back to tikkaa / Tikkaa!
    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •