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Thread: Инок , Старец и другие

  1. #1
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    Инок , Старец и другие

    How to translate to English all those crazy names for monastic hierarchy of Orthodox church?

    Как перевести на английский все эти странные иерархические названия Православново монашества, как:
    Старец
    Инок
    ...кто там ещо....
    Иеромонах
    и.др.

    I think I have seen an article about it, but cannot find now....

  2. #2
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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    Не знаю, что вам кажется странным или crazy в этих названиях, но ответ вы можете найти даже в Википедии.
    Как можно видеть, термины, не имеющие греческого происхождения, просто транслитерируют, как, например, сёгуна или эрла, - starets.
    Last edited by Maroseika; 8th September 2013 at 12:34 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    So far I have found this:
    Hegumen = abbot
    Hieromonk – jeromonach
    Starec = Elder

    What is Inok? Novice or what?


    p.s. Maroseika, Yes, they seem strange, I wonder who does understand those names outside traditional Orthodox (Russia, Bulgaria, Balkans, Greece)world
    Last edited by zambala; 8th September 2013 at 12:39 PM.

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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    Quote Originally Posted by zambala View Post
    Starec = Elder

    I'm afraid this is a bit confusing, as in what sense starets is elder? At least age or position in the monastery has nothing to do with this, starets is too specific notion, so better to transliterate it, I think.


    Hegumen = abbot
    Hieromonk – jeromonach
    Inok - novice
    This seems all right for me.
    p.s. Maroseika, Yes, they seem strange, I wonder who does understand those names outside traditional Orthodox (Russia, Bulgaria, Balkans, Greece)world
    I think they are more or less clear to any native, acquainted with the Russian literature.

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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    Maroseika,

    Of course Starec is not meant an old men, but I think it's Elder is exactly that - a position or Elderhood , you can read also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldersh...hristianity%29 .

    For example, in Latvia I have seen many Mormons who are walking around with a tablet with their names: "Elder John" or "Elder James", etc. I think it can be met also in other instances...

    "In the Eastern Orthodox Church the term presbyter is used to refer to priests, whose authority is considered to be an extension of that of the local bishop. In Orthodox theology, the charism of Eldership (itself an extenuation of Prophesy) continues to this day in monasticism. An experienced monastic Elder (Greek: Geronta; Slavonic: Starets) will provide guidance not only for their fellow monks, but for the laity as well."

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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    Well, with detailed explaination this is more clear, of course, but I still suspect that without one the term Elder will be understood wrongly. It would be interesting to know how English natives really understand it, if they know nothing about Russian staretses.

  7. #7
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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    Quote Originally Posted by zambala View Post
    For example, in Latvia I have seen many Mormons who are walking around with a tablet with their names: "Elder John" or "Elder James", etc. I think it can be met also in other instances...
    I've seen them too. In Russian their badges read "старейшина Джон". I think it makes difference. "Старейшина" refers to the position of the person in the administrative hierarchy. "Старец" - well, I believe it does refer to the age and the wisdom of the person. I may be wrong here, but I cannot recall any widely known young "старец".
    Please correct my mistakes.

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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    Quote Originally Posted by igusarov View Post
    "Старец" - well, I believe it does refer to the age and the wisdom of the person.
    Not exactly. Not any wise and old monk can be attributed as старец. Старец is a wise (and therefore probably rather old) monk, practicing spiritual leadership in regard of other monks in the monastery or laymen.
    So by no mean he can be likened to the Mormons' elders or anybody of this kind.

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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    Старец
    An elder of an Orthodox Christian monastery can be recognized by alternative name as spiritual father who function as a venerated adviser and teacher. Spiritual fathering is perhaps best expressed through the term mentoring.
    I think that инок denotes particular stage of monastic formation, such as novice.

  10. #10
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    Re: Инок , Старец и другие

    Quote Originally Posted by zambala View Post
    How to translate to English all those crazy names for monastic hierarchy of Orthodox church?

    Как перевести на английский все эти странные иерархические названия Православново монашества, как:
    Старец
    Инок
    ...кто там ещо....
    Иеромонах
    и.др.

    I think I have seen an article about it, but cannot find now....
    There is nothing weird or crazy about these words, they are quite normal and widely used by Orthodox Christians.

    "Старец" is not a hierarchical term. Startsy are outside any hierarchy. These are men who have been given by God a special gift of spiritual guidance. They can read the hearts of those who come to them for spiritual advice, they often know your problem before you start talking about or even before you know that you have it. God opens to them secret thoughts of people. Their prayers are exceptionally ardent, so miracles are sometimes worked in answer to their prayers. They usually receive such gifts after a long ascetic life, so most startsy are elderly monks. But there are some younger startsy, some startsy are married priests (like Fr Alexey Mechov of Moscow) or even lay men. A woman who has the grace of starets is called staritsa. See. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starets

    In English-language Orthodox texts the following equivalents are normally used: elder (female form: eldress) or starets (staritsa) - a transliteration of the Russian word. Of course, if you write for non-Orthodox readers, you will have to explain the meaning of these words.

    "Инок" in the past meant simply a "monk" and is used like this sometimes in our time. However, as Wikipedia informs us, "В современных православных мужских монастырях иноком называют не монаха в собственном смысле, но рясофорного (греч. «носящего рясу») монаха — до пострижения его в «малую схиму» (обусловленную окончательным принятием монашеских обетов и наречением нового имени). Инок — как бы «новоначальный монах».
    В современных русских женских монастырях сохраняется традиция Российской империи, в которой иноческий постриг принципиально отличается от рясофорного пострига тем, что принимающая иноческий постриг монахиня получает новое имя. Монашеские обеты Господу во время чина пострижения не произносятся, поскольку иночество — это подготовительная стадия перед мантийным пострижением. Монашеские обеты пока лишь подразумеваются, поскольку готовность к их принятию и исполнению требует особого внутреннего устроения, определенной духовной зрелости. Согласно правилам и уставам православной церкви иноческий постриг совершается при наличии на то благословения от архиерея" http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D1%F2%...D0.BD.D1.8F.29

    In this case, you should call an инок a "rassophore monk" in English. (Инокния - a rassophore nun).

    Finally, "иеромонах" is a very simply word. It means "a priest who is a monk" and is translated into English as 'hieromonk' or, if you want it very simple, 'priest-monk'.

    All this, in fact, is very simple, if you find time to look into it. In fact, you don't have to look for explanations in some obscure religious sources, good old Wikipedia contains quite a lot of such information.

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