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Thread: FR: inversion sujet-verbe après certains adverbes (ensuite, sans doute, peut-être, aussi, ainsi, alors, etc.)

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    FR: inversion sujet-verbe après certains adverbes (ensuite, sans doute, peut-être, aussi, ainsi, alors, etc.)

    Chers tous,

    In a passage about 17th century painting in Europe, I found this sentence:

    "Ensuite viennent les portraits d'individus moins remarquables, les paysages, et les nature mortes."

    Could anyone please explain why the verb comes before the subject?

    Merci beacoup

    Moderator note: Multiple threads have been merged to create this one.
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 20th March 2013 at 2:26 PM. Reason: note

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    Re: inversion du sujet et du verbe

    This is because of "ensuite" at the beginning of the sentence.
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 19th March 2013 at 3:44 PM. Reason: unnecessary citation of previous post removed to save space

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    Re: inversion du sujet et du verbe

    Why can't you say "Ensuite, les portraits d'individus...viennent"?

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    Re: inversion du sujet et du verbe

    Quote Originally Posted by whoisal View Post
    Why can't you say "Ensuite, les portraits d'individus...viennent"?
    hard to explain... from my point of view (but Maitre Capello may have a more formal explanation), here your subject is very long "les portraits d'individus moins remarquables, les paysages, et les natures mortes" so it's not very "beautiful" to have the verb after this long subject... on the contrary, you would have "Ensuite, vous pouvez voir les portraits...." or "les portraits d'individus moins remarquables, les paysages, et les natures mortes viennent ensuite"

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    Re: inversion du sujet et du verbe

    That is a literay form, it would not be used in colloquial french, but grammatically it is quite correct. That's written french

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    Re: inversion du sujet et du verbe

    I wouldn't say it's literary… Also this inversion is not due to the length of the subject as we would also say Viennent ensuite les natures mortes (without any other item). For some reason this is the syntax we're using in the middle of an enumeration or rather an ordered list of items: Vous avez d'abord les paysages et les natures mortes. Ensuite viennent (= Viennent ensuite) les portraits.

    Maybe the explanation for this inversion is that the reader will know right away you're continuing the enumeration. (If you don't have that inversion viennent ensuite has to be at the end of the sentence…)
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 19th March 2013 at 3:45 PM. Reason: unnecessary citation of post removed to save space

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    Re: inversion du sujet et du verbe

    I agree with you but I find it really hard to explain...
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 19th March 2013 at 3:45 PM. Reason: idem

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    Re: inversion du sujet et du verbe

    Whoisal, we do the same thing in English!

    Usually we would say, "The portraits come next." But it is also possible to say, "Next come the portraits."

    In French like in English, there is nothing "incorrect" about the normal order with subject + verb. But in French, this inverted structure is perhaps preferred.

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    Re: FR: inversion du sujet et du verbe - Ensuite viennent les portraits

    The inverted verb-subject syntax is relatively common with intransitive verbs, and it looks and sounds more elegant than the standard SV syntax, although both are correct. It may also be used to break the monotony in a text.
    Deuparth gwaith yw ei ddechrau.

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    FR: Sans doute + inversion sujet-verbe

    Pourquoi est-ce qu'il y a de l'inversion ici, et est-ce qu'il y a une règle dont on peut se servir en ce cas ?

    Sans doute est-elle célèbre sur son propre campus, car les têtes se retournent sur elle...

    Merci
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 20th March 2013 at 2:28 PM. Reason: threads merged

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    Re: FR: subject-verb inversion

    Sans doute est-elle is fairly the equivalent of Sans doute qu'elle est...

    Sans doute is followed by inversion of subject and verb or by que plus subject/verb. See http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa110601.htm (or Google "sans doute" + inversion).

    Why? I dunno. Just is.

    Note: It's sans doute (to correct your typo).
    Last edited by bloomiegirl; 1st November 2007 at 4:07 AM. Reason: Incomplete quote

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    Re: FR: inversion - Sans doute est-elle célèbre

    Bonjour,

    Je pense que la phrase commence par "sans doute" de manière à insister sur le manque de certitude.

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    FR: ainsi + inversion sujet-verbe

    je voulais savoir si ainsi plus l'inversion est bien appliquee dans cette phrase.

    Merci d'avance.

    Ce texte nous apprend que la « profonde unité » est essentielle pour dissiper les « ténèbres » obscurcissant l’esprit des hommes, ainsi laisse-t-on la lumière infiltrer leur âmes « corrompus. »

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    Re: ainsi + inversion du sujet

    Ce texte nous apprend que la « profonde unité » est essentielle pour dissiper les « ténèbres » obscurcissant l’esprit des hommes, ainsi laisse-t-on la lumière infiltrer leur âmes « corrompues. »
    Très bien !


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    FR: inversion sujet-verbe après certains adverbes (aussi, peut-être…)

    Hi,

    I'd like to know if it is always a must to change the order of the personal pronouns with the following words;

    -peut-être
    -aussi
    -sans doute
    -ainsi
    -à peine...

    Ex:

    Il plevait. Aussi ont-ils décidé de prendre leurs parapluies.
    Peut-être a-t-il raté l'avion, ne vous inquiétez pas.

    Are there also any other words needing being used in that way ?

    Thanks in advanced.

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    Re: La Déplacement de Pronoms Personnels Sujet

    Whenever these adverbs are at the beginning of a clause, the verb of that clause usually comes before the subject pronoun. This is still true when the subject isn't a pronoun, in which case, the actual subject comes first and is repeated with the corresponding pronoun. Anyway, the non-inversion remains always possible but it sounds a bit colloquial

    Il pleuvait, aussi ont-ils décidé de prendre leurs parapluies.
    Il pleuvait, aussi mes amis ont-ils décidé de prendre leurs parapluies.
    Il pleuvait, aussi ils ont décidé de prendre leurs parapluies. (colloquial)
    Il pleuvait, aussi mes amis ont décidé de prendre leurs parapluies. (colloquial)

    Peut-être a-t-il raté l'avion
    .
    Peut-être Pierre a-t-il raté l'avion.
    Peut-être il a raté l'avion. (colloquial)
    Peut-être Pierre a raté l'avion. (colloquial)

    At any rate, there is no exhaustive list of adverbs for which the inversion is recommended and we don't allow such lists on WordReference anyway…

    Maître Capello,
    as member and moderator

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    Re: FR: inversion sujet-verbe après certains adverbes (aussi, peut-être…)

    OK, thanks for help. I'm a newcomer and didn't know such a thing is allowed. Anyway, consequently, If I was going to use the other adverbs at the beginning of sentence by changing the subject and the verb, then it wouldn't be inaccurate at all?

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    Re: FR: inversion sujet-verbe après certains adverbes (aussi, peut-être…)

    Yes, it would be correct to also make the inversion for the adverbs you mentioned above (peut-être, aussi, sans doute, ainsi, à peine) but this would not be true for any adverb!

    P.S.: Welcome to the WordReference forums!

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    Re: FR: inversion sujet-verbe après certains adverbes (aussi, peut-être…)

    You may have a look at this site for more on the subject: http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa110601.htm
    Please correct my errors! Thanks.
    Corrigez-moi, s'il vous plaît! Merci.
    Пoжaлуйcтa, иcпpaвьтe мoи oшибки! Бoльшoe cпaсибo.

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    Re: La Déplacement de Pronoms Personnels Sujet

    Quote Originally Posted by Maître Capello View Post
    Peut-être il a raté l'avion. (colloquial)
    Peut-être Pierre a raté l'avion. (colloquial)

    Really? As a former teacher I would always consider these examples incorrect. If I were going to avoid the inversion, I would place que after peut-être.

    Peut-être qu' il a raté l'avion.
    Peut-être que Pierre a raté l'avion.

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