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Thread: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

  1. #1
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    All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Are verbs
    a) to be
    b) to go
    irregular in your language?

  2. #2
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Hmmm...That's a hard one for me because as a native speaker of Polish, I don't really have a sense of what's regular and what's not. I can give you the cojugations and you draw your own conclusions:

    być - to be

    Ja jestem - I am
    Ty jesteś - You are
    On/ona/ono jest - He/she/it is
    My jesteśmy - We are
    Wy jesteście - You are
    Oni/one są - They are (oni is masculine, one is used for a group consisting only of women)

    iść - to go (meaning, walk on foot)

    Ja idę - I go
    Ty idziesz - You go
    On/ona/ono idzie - He/she/it goes
    My idziemy - We go
    Wy idziecie - You go
    Oni/one idą - They go

    jechać - to go (by car, by train, etc)

    Ja jadę
    Ty jedziesz
    On/ona/ono jedzie
    My jedziemy
    Wy jedziecie
    Oni/one jadą

    The verb "to go" looks quite normal and regular to me. However, in the conjugation of "być" the infinitive form and the personal forms look totally different, they don't have the same stem. Hope that helps

  3. #3
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    They are irregular in Czech:

    to be: být
    jsem, jsi, je, jsme, jste, jsou

    to go on foot: jít
    jdu, jdeš, jde, jdeme, jdete, jdou

    to go (in a vehicle)/ride/drive: jet
    jedu, jedeš, jede, jedeme, jedete, jedou

    The conjugations of jít and jet are not so irregular if you look at them, if you compare them to the infinitive, they look somewhat different. Maybe some time ago the infinitive was more regular and was something like jdet and jedet, but it's just my speculation. The funny thing is that Russian jít, идти, has an unpronounced d in it, which comes up again (and is fully pronounced) in its conjugation.
    Jazyk

  4. #4
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    As regards the verb "to go" (on foot), let me add my somewhat unscientific take on it:

    First, I think the default translation for "to go" is "chodit" rather than "jít". The latter in fact means "to be going".

    I go there every week. Chodím tam každý týden.

    I'm going to the pub. Jdu do hospody.

    An interesting feature of "jít" is that its perfective aspect seems to lack infinitive:

    Půjdu tam. I'll go there. But there is no infinitive such as "půjít".

    But the biggest irregularity in my opinion is that "jít" has a completely different root in the past tense then in the present tense: "šel jsem..."

  5. #5
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    First, I think the default translation for "to go" is "chodit" rather than "jít". The latter in fact means "to be going".
    I know, but I chose it and not chodit to match Polish iść, to which it is equivalent in etymology and usage.
    Jazyk

  6. #6
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Quote Originally Posted by mietagosia View Post
    The verb "to go" looks quite normal and regular to me.
    I'd say all three are strongly irregular.

  7. #7
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Maybe this old thread will pique dihydrogen monoxide's interest.
    Jazyk

  8. #8
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Deuparth gwaith yw ei ddechrau.

  9. #9
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Slovene:

    biti: sem, si, je, sva, sta, sta, smo, ste, so
    iti: grem, greš, gre, greva, gresta, gresta, gremo, greste, grejo/gredo

    Both are obviously irregular.

  10. #10
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Quote Originally Posted by dihydrogen monoxide View Post
    Are verbs
    a) to be
    b) to go
    irregular in your language?
    I would gladly bet $50 that the verb to be is extremely irregular in absolutely every Indo-European language. It is certainly irregular in all Slavic ones, as you can see on Outsider's link.

    As for the verb to go, most Slavic languages don't have a direct translation for this verb. Slavic verbs of motion are extremely complicated and English to go can translate into many different verbs depending on the context. In South Slavic languages, the system of these verbs has been somewhat simplified, but just take a look at the complexities of the Russian verbs of motion.

    Generally speaking, the verbs of motion tend to be quite irregular. In particular, the ones coming from the Proto-Slavic *jьti (Croatian ići, Russian идти, Polish iść, and the others already mentioned in this thread) tend to be very irregular and suppletive.

  11. #11
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Quote Originally Posted by Athaulf View Post
    In South Slavic languages, the system of these verbs has been somewhat simplified
    Not Slovene, however, which even preserves the supine (which indicates "an intention to perform an action" and has been lost in other Slavic languages).

  12. #12
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    In Lower Sorbian the verb "to be/byś " goes like this:

    ja som
    ty sy
    wón/wóna/wóno je

    mej smej
    wej stej
    wónej stej

    my smy
    wy sćo
    wóni su

    The verb "to go/hyś " looks like this:

    ja du, źom
    ty źoš
    wón/wóna/wóno źo

    mej źomej
    wej źotej
    wónej źotej

    my źomy
    wy źośo
    wóni du

    As you see they're quite irregular, too.

  13. #13
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Quote Originally Posted by TriglavNationalPark View Post
    Not Slovene, however, which even preserves the supine (which indicates "an intention to perform an action" and has been lost in other Slavic languages).
    In Sorbian the supine survived as well. Here some examples:

    spaś (to sleep) ->> źi spat (Go to sleep!)
    nakupowaś (to shop) ->> wóni du nakupowat (They're going shopping.)

  14. #14
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Bulgarian to be:

    az sum - I am
    ti si - you are
    toi e - he is
    tia e - she is
    to e - it is
    nie sme - we are
    vie ste - you are
    te sa - they are

    Bulgarian to go:

    da ida - to go(I)
    da idesh - to go(you)
    da ide - to go(he/she/it)
    da idem - to go(we)
    da idete - to go (you)
    da idat - to go(they)

  15. #15
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    In Macedonian, to be is irregular: (I agree with Athaulf regarding his last post)

    Да се биде /Da se bide/:

    (Јас) сум /(Jas) sum/ (I) am
    (Ти) си /(Ti) si/ (You) are
    (Тој/Таа?тоа) е /(Toj/Taa/Toa) e/ (He/She/It) is
    (Ние) сме /(Nie) sme / (We) are
    (Вие) сте /(Vie) ste/ (You) are
    (Тие) се /(Tie) se/ (They) are

    While to go is a regular one:

    Оди /Odi/:

    (Јас) одам /(Jas) odam/ (I) go
    (Ти) одиш /(Ti) odish/ (You) go
    (Тој/Таа/Тоа) оди /(Toj/Taa/Toa) odi (He/She/It) goes
    (Ние) одиме /(Nie) odime/ (We) go
    (Вие) одите /(Vie) odite/ (You) go
    (Тие) одат /(Tie) odat/ (They) go

    The personal pronouns can or may not be used, since the existence of separate forms for each person. =)
    Last edited by echo chamber; 10th August 2008 at 9:43 PM. Reason: forgot to mention a detail

  16. #16
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Quote Originally Posted by trance0 View Post
    Slovene:

    biti: sem, si, je, sva, sta, sta, smo, ste, so
    iti: grem, greš, gre, greva, gresta, gresta, gremo, greste, grejo/gredo

    Both are obviously irregular.
    I actually find it confusing how you conjugate the verb to be. In Bulgarian these are two different werbs:

    съм: съм, си, е, сме, сте, са
    да бъда: бъда, бъдеш, бъде, бъдем, бъдете, бъдат

    I think this is the case in Sebrian , too. Am I right?

    Edit:
    I forgot the verb бивам - slightly archaic but almost same meaning.


    In Bulgarian, there are three conjugation forms and all the vеrbs obey the rules, except for съм.

    And we have many words for "to go".
    Last edited by Darina; 12th August 2008 at 1:59 AM.

  17. #17
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Well, in Slovenian there also exists a conjugation of "biti" with the "bode-" root: bodem, bodeš, bode, bodeva, bodeta, bodeta, bodemo, bodete, bodejo; but this is just a longer form ob the "bo-" root, which is only used for FUTURE tense! There is only one "to be" verb in Slovenian.

  18. #18
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Quote Originally Posted by trance0 View Post
    Well, in Slovenian there also exists a conjugation of "biti" with the "bode-" root: bodem, bodeš, bode, bodeva, bodeta, bodeta, bodemo, bodete, bodejo; but this is just a longer form ob the "bo-" root, which is only used for FUTURE tense! There is only one "to be" verb in Slovenian.
    Interesting!
    In Bulgarian we use both for future with the same meaning: ще съм, ще бъда - I will be, although the second form is the correct one.

    What about the expression "to be or not to be"?
    And which one do you use as an auxiliary verb to form past tenses?

  19. #19
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    Infinitive of "to be" in Slovene is "biti". You drop the "-ti" ending and you get the stem, then you add: -l/la/lo/li,... --> bil/bila/bilo,... and you get a participle(opisni deležnik) which is used for past tense, pluperfect, conditional of the verb to be,...

    In Slovene only "to be" is used to form past tenses(of which there are only two). The future si formed using the future of the auxiliary "to be" (bom, boš,...) and the participle on -l. There is no other way to form the future tense in Slovene. Slovene does not form the future tense with "hoteti", "to want" as Croatian for example.

    Conditional is formed using "bi"(the remnant of the old aorist, which no longer exists in Slovene) which is the same for all persons and the main verb is again in its participle(-l) form.

  20. #20
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    Re: All Slavic languages: Verb irregularity

    To be or not to be in Slovene: biti ali ne biti.

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