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Thread: la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

  1. #1
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    la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

    Buenas tardes, foreros.

    I am a little bit confused about the letter ñ. I know that a while back, the RAE talked about treating it as a variation of the letter n, but my understanding is that it is still a letter in its own right. (The RAE dictionary confirms this, calling it the 17th letter.)

    My basic question is whether words beginning with ñ should be stuck right in there with n-words, when alphabetizing, or if they should be treated separately and come afterwards. All of the dictionaries that I have are older, and still have separate sections for che and elle, so I can't really go by those. The WordReference dictionary treats ñ as a variation of n in its alphabetical order, but, as this is different from how what I grew up learning, I'd love some confirmation that this is indeed correct.

    Given the four words ñandú, naipe, naríz, and ñeque, would A or B be the correct alphabetical order for them?

    A) naipe ..............................................B) naipe
    ....nariz ..................................................ñandú
    ....ñandú .................................................nariz
    ....ñeque .................................................ñeque


    Thanks very much!
    Last edited by Karlaina; 18th August 2008 at 8:21 PM. Reason: formatting

  2. #2
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    Re: la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlaina View Post
    Buenas tardes, foreros.

    Given the four words ñandú, naipe, naríz, and ñeque, would A or B be the correct alphabetical order for them?

    A) naipe ..............................................B) naipe
    ....nariz ..................................................ñandú
    ....ñandú .................................................nariz
    ....ñeque .................................................ñeque


    Thanks very much!
    Hi Karlaina,

    I heard indeed that the RAE ceased treating "ch" and "ll" as a letter in themselves and changed the order in which words beginning with them are listed in the dictionaries, but I think you missheard about the "ñ", this one never changed, it is still a letter in itself.

    The option "A" would be the correct one.

    Regards.

  3. #3
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    Re: la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlaina View Post
    Buenas tardes, foreros.

    I am a little bit confused about the letter ñ. I know that a while back, the RAE talked about treating it as a variation of the letter n, but my understanding is that it is still a letter in its own right. (The RAE dictionary confirms this, calling it the 17th letter.)

    My basic question is whether words beginning with ñ should be stuck right in there with n-words, when alphabetizing, or if they should be treated separately and come afterwards. All of the dictionaries that I have are older, and still have separate sections for che and elle, so I can't really go by those. The WordReference dictionary treats ñ as a variation of n in its alphabetical order, but, as this is different from how what I grew up learning, I'd love some confirmation that this is indeed correct.

    Given the four words ñandú, naipe, naríz, and ñeque, would A or B be the correct alphabetical order for them?

    A) naipe ..............................................B) naipe
    ....nariz ..................................................ñandú
    ....ñandú .................................................nariz
    ....ñeque .................................................ñeque


    Thanks very much!
    I think I would consider A) the correct list. If I recall correctly, what changed to compromise was the way dictionaries are made. However, as you have confirmed, the abecedario, or alphabet, has its own order. I think there was a lot of pressure on España at some point in the past from the European Union, to even do away with the letter eñe altogether. In the end the eñe prevailed, and now it is "legal" in the internet etc. in countries like Argentina, and other Spanish speaking countries in the world. I hope this helps some.
    Buena suerte
    Carlos

  4. #4
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    Re: la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

    nutritivo/va
    nutriz
    nutual
    ny
    ñ
    ña
    ñacaniná
    ñacurutú
    ñagaza
    ñame
    ...
    ñudillo
    ñudo
    ñudoso/sa
    ñuto/ta
    o
    oasis
    oaxaqueño/ña
    obcecación
    obcecadamente

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    Re: la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

    Quote Originally Posted by horusankh View Post
    Hi Karlaina,

    I heard indeed that the RAE ceased treating "ch" and "ll" as a letter in themselves and changed the order in which words beginning with them are listed in the dictionaries, but I think you missheard about the "ñ", this one never changed, it is still a letter in itself.

    The option "A" would be the correct one.

    Regards.

    Thanks for your input, horusankh. I agree with you, but I notice that the WordReference forum dictionary uses the B system - that's what initially caused my confusion.

    See, I had heard that there was discussion of eliminating the letter eñe, but was sure that it had not happened...

    Quote from my previous post: ...
    my understanding is that it [ñ] is still a letter in its own right. (The RAE dictionary confirms this, calling it [ñ] the 17th letter.)

    I guess unless I get any posters who disagree, I will go with A. Thanks, horusankh.

  6. #6
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    Re: la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

    Gracias a los de más también! No había visto las otras dos respuestas hasta ahortia. Pues, me parece que "A" es la manera correcta y que el diccionario de WordReference esté equivocado.

    Gracias, AlecCowan y Carlospalmer. Agradezco la ayuda.

  7. #7
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    Re: la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlaina View Post
    Gracias a los de más también! No había visto las otras dos respuestas hasta ahortia. Pues, me parece que "A" es la manera correcta y que el diccionario de WordReference esté equivocado.

    Gracias, AlecCowan y Carlospalmer. Agradezco la ayuda.
    Hola:
    Solo para comentarte que no creo que el orden en el cual aparecen las palabras en el diccionario de WR responda a una decisión de hacerlo así. El problema radica en los programas que se usan para gestionar las bases de datos. Yo tengo el mismo problema en una base de datos de SQL. La palabra ñoquis, por ejemplo, la ordena como si la eñe no existiese. Me molesta bastante, pero está completamente fuera de las posibilidades de cualquier usuario, e incluso de los programadores, arreglar ese problema.
    Saludos
    A.A.
    Matar en nombre de Dios es una aberración. Papa Francisco

  8. #8
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    Re: la eñe - alphabetizing ñandú

    Quote Originally Posted by Adolfo Afogutu View Post
    Hola:
    Solo para comentarte que no creo que el orden en el cual aparecen las palabras en el diccionario de WR responda a una decisión de hacerlo así. El problema radica en los programas que se usan para gestionar las bases de datos. Yo tengo el mismo problema en una base de datos de SQL. La palabra ñoquis, por ejemplo, la ordena como si la eñe no existiese. Me molesta bastante, pero está completamente fuera de las posibilidades de cualquier usuario, e incluso de los programadores, arreglar ese problema.
    Saludos
    A.A.
    Gracias, Adolfo... Eso sospechaba.

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