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Thread: selective schools

  1. #1
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    selective schools

    Hi foreros

    Does your country have selective education? At what age? How is the selection done? Do you think it is a good or a bad thing?

    Here our MPs are voting today on Education, but some selection of children has been one of the things Tony B has compromised on, to try to get the backing of his party.

    Has there been a thread on this before? I have searched, but not found anything - the closest I got was one on public and private education. If this topic isn't a repeat and doesn't get modded away, I will come and post my own views really soon (maybe as a lovely treat once I've done my afternoon's marking and teaching!!)

    Saludos educativos
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    Re: selective schools

    Whilst education to secondary level is free in Ireland there are fee-paying schools available to any who wish to avail of it.

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    Re: selective schools

    Hi
    Would you please explain to me what you mean by selective schools or selective education?

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    Re: selective schools

    In the U.S. there are two broad categories of selective schools,
    which exist along side free public education, which is usually provided from about age 5 to age 17 or 18.

    1- public "magnet" schools, for which local communities set the curriculum and entrance criteria. These are free, and some have a selective entrance process.

    2- private schools. Many of these, but not all, set high academic performance standards. Most charge relatively high tuition fees, but also give scholarship assistance to those who cannot afford to pay, but have demonstrated their competence.

    Within the private school category are thousands of schools that are 'selective' only in the sense that they offer an ideology or something else parents want to be central to their childrens' education. The 'selection' process consists of the choice to apply and the ability to pay.
    That mod mods best that mods least...with apologies to Th. Jefferson.

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    Re: selective schools

    I'll add a bit to what Cuchuflete has already explained.
    Quote Originally Posted by cuchuflete
    1- public "magnet" schools, for which local communities set the curriculum and entrance criteria. These are free, and some have a selective entrance process. Each of the magnet schools, at least in the city where I live, has its own "specialized" curriculum to attract students. One is an "arts" high school that also offers an international studies program and prep courses for the International Baccalaureate for those students wishing to take it. We also have a "math and science" middle and high school located to the state's largest health and bio-technology complex. We also have another school dedicated to communications and media studies. Each of these schools is located in a less-affluent part of town. Their purpose is to enhance integration in the schools.
    2- private schools. Many of these, but not all, set high academic performance standards. Most charge relatively high tuition fees, but also give scholarship assistance to those who cannot afford to pay, but have demonstrated their competence. With one exception, all of the Private schools in my town are perochial, or religious-based. Two are "Episcopalian," the others are Catholic. Students need not belong to any particular denomination to go to any of these schools. However, in some instances, tuition is HIGHER for those who do not belong and attend church.

    "Sometimes the worst evil is done by good people who do not know that they are not good." - Reinhold Niebuhr

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    Re: selective schools

    Well, in Egypt there are two types of schools

    Public schools: these offer education for free. The ministry of education set the curriculum.

    Private or language schools: such schools teach some of the courses set by the misinistry of education in a different language (either English or French). They also offer higher-level courses in English or French . Such schools demand fees. (I suppose this is closer to what you mean by the selective education)

    Education at these two types is provided from the age of 5.

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    Re: selective schools

    About selectivity--some private schools run from kindergaretn through grade twelve (year thirteen). At the most selective of those schools, mothers will register their newborn babies several days after they are born to ensure they will be admitted at the ground level in kindergarten, because in this way there is no entrance exam or testing for the child. Intense.

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    Re: selective schools

    About selectivity--some private schools run from kindergaretn through grade twelve (year thirteen). At the most selective of those schools, mothers will register their newborn babies several days after they are born to ensure they will be admitted at the ground level in kindergarten, because in this way there is no entrance exam or testing for the child. Intense.
    Several days after they are born? I've known people to "pre-register" their children while they were still in-utero.

    "Sometimes the worst evil is done by good people who do not know that they are not good." - Reinhold Niebuhr

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    Re: selective schools

    Quote Originally Posted by GenJen54
    Several days after they are born? I've known people to "pre-register" their children while they were still in-utero.
    Hmm. Different take on potentiality--how pregnant must the mother be?
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    Re: selective schools

    Isn't it true that, in the US, "future" children are often "pre-registered" in private schools many years before they are actually born?

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    Re: selective schools

    I am still marking , but I am going to be cheeky and remind you guys what this thread is about
    (and it's not registering embryos for private schools!!)
    Does your country have selective education? At what age? How is the selection done?
    Do you think it is a good or a bad thing?
    P
    ¡Corregid mi castellano, por favor! Muchísimas gracias.
    Un idioma es un dialecto con un ejército detrás - Napoleón (creo)

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    Re: selective schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Heba
    Hi
    Would you please explain to me what you mean by selective schools or selective education?
    In most free-education countries a child must attend the school nearest to where it lives.
    Selective schools take pupils in based on other criteria than locality. Usually ability to pay, sometimes by examination results. They select their pupils.

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    Re: selective schools

    I though that selective schools mean like the schools for very talented students= so we have these kinds of schools also for 6-7 years old children in Slovakia but there are not so many and probably need some financial support from parents or government.

    When you are talking about selective schools as the schools you need to pass exams to get in we have only selective High schools. Primary schools are all the same and everybody can attend them according to the location without selection. But when you go to the High school, you need first take an exam. The main difference is that you choose the school you want to attend because the High schools in Slovakia are divided according to the subjects-so when you want to be for example cook, you choose the school for cooks, nurse- the school for nurses and you don't need university to work. When you want to be lawyer, doctor,... or want to go to some universities...you need to choose High school that is orientated on science and social education (Gymnázium) and then theoretically you need to go to the some university to have opportunity to work (that are also specially orientated and you need to pass special exam). So when you do your exam for High school, you do it in that High school and you do it in the second semester of the last year of your primary school. All exams are basically the same for all the High schools (mostly math and Slovak), they differ only in difficulty- therefore pupils choose 2 schools and they try to pass it. The exams for gymnazium and schools (or directions) that are favorite for many pupils have more difficult exams than the other ones, so only certain amount of students pass them- so therefore we can call them selective. When you didn't pass the exams you can go to the schools that don't have so much students and need some or pass additional exams later. When you don't care, they give you where is some place, after another students, who care find their High schools. When you get in your High school, when it is public, you didn't pay anything, when it is private , you pay, regardless if it is gymnazium or other school.
    Last edited by Suane; 15th March 2006 at 11:35 PM.

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    Re: selective schools

    I wish to revive this thread (hope that's allowed) because the OP was misunderstood. A selective school in Britain is one which chooses some or all of its students based on their academic ability (selects them). Almost all schools here are government run and free, so the question is not about private schools. In some counties, like where I grew up, there is an exam you sit at age 11 if you want to get into selective 'grammar schools'. This system is not done in the cities, but there are different kinds of selective schools. Certainly in my experience they're very successful.

    if I may answer on behalf of Egypt, I am quite sure the answer is no, possibly with the exception of one single school for truly excellent pupils though I don't know much about it. It would be nice to have this system مدارس للمتفوقين but unfortunately Egypt since Mubarak came to power anyway has never spent much on services and ranks essentially at the bottom for basic government-run education. It is unfathomable to most Egyptians that a decent government-run school even exist, and it's telling that private fee-paying establishments invariably pretend to be 'international' (though they never are)-but that's another story.
    Last edited by إسكندراني; 9th November 2013 at 6:58 PM.
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    Re: selective schools

    It is quite a contraversial issue in the UK, though, selective schooling.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...h-8933407.html
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    Re: selective schools

    Quote Originally Posted by GenJen54 View Post
    Several days after they are born? I've known people to "pre-register" their children while they were still in-utero.
    Oh, God, that is a mad, mad world!

    In my country, there are private schools (too few) and public schools.
    However, I have noticed here a concept I did not know of but I can recognise in some public schools with selective entrance criteria + 3 exams in Maths, a foreign language + the mother-tongue language: magnet schools (from 10 to 14 age). That's an interesting one! I wonder if this is a legit term or just an invented name for these kind of schools???
    Last edited by irinet; 13th November 2013 at 2:36 AM.
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    Re: selective schools

    In Spain several local governments have set up what they call 'Bachillerato de Excelencia'. There are public schools offering this, and access is through good grades and a test taken at the end of the 10th year. It is a controversial issue, as people are afraid the governments will give more resources to those schools taking them from normal public schools.
    Feel free to correct my mistakes!

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    Re: selective schools

    I can only speak for the state of Victoria, Australia, as I'm not sure of the situation in other states. We have two selective high schools, one male and one female. Entrance is based on performance at an entry examination towards the end of year 8 (second year after primary school). They are govenment run schools and have nothing to do with the private school system. They are not specially treated with regard to funding. The students perform very well at university entrance exams; better than most private schools.

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    Re: selective schools

    It's surprising to me that so many countries have this system, then!

    To clarify, the controversy is that
    a/ the 'successful' selective school gets more funding and government attention,
    b/ the 'successful' selective school is the only place a child may succeed academically,
    however, in my experience, the alternative is no selective schools, in which case almost no child can 'succeed' academically. The 70% or so of students who have no interest in an academic education end up hindering those who are able to keep up with the syllabus. Having schools that are selective also allows other schools to specialise in non-academic skills - which are equally important despite being grossly undervalued in society.
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    Re: selective schools

    Quote Originally Posted by إسكندراني View Post
    It's surprising to me that so many countries have this system, then!

    To clarify, the controversy is that
    a/ the 'successful' selective school gets more funding and government attention,
    b/ the 'successful' selective school is the only place a child may succeed academically,
    however, in my experience, the alternative is no selective schools, in which case almost no child can 'succeed' academically. The 70% or so of students who have no interest in an academic education end up hindering those who are able to keep up with the syllabus. Having schools that are selective also allows other schools to specialise in non-academic skills - which are equally important despite being grossly undervalued in society.
    Well, I basically agree with the system, as long as the government gives guarantees that the selective school is not taking resources from the normal schools. In Spain there is no budget issue, they are equally funded, but maybe the best teachers go to those schools so the bad teachers go to normal schools? I understand but don't agree with the people that complain.
    But I don't agree with your point 'b'. Regarding for normal schools, Spain is a total disaster, but it is possible to have good public schools; in Europe it seems Finland's are the best. I think we should aim for the whole package: good public schools and selective schools for the extraordinary kids.
    Feel free to correct my mistakes!

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