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Thread: Cross-cultural love

  1. #41
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    positive and negative aspects of mixed marriages

    hi all
    what do you think of mixed marriages, between a man and a woman from different countries, cultures or religions
    explain well and argue please

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    Re: positive and negative aspects of mixed marriages

    I always come out with my sloppy, corny, romantic notions that as long as two people really love each other, they shall surmount all obstacles and their love will rise, like the eagles, soaring through the heavens, etc. etc. etc.
    But in truth, for the people who actually have a problem with this concept, they will always find some way of segregating people...
    For example, I married a woman who has lighter skin color than I and has colored eyes, where mine are just dull brown. She comes from a rural area, I from the largest city in my motherland. She comes from humble origins, I was from the middle-class. She was christian, and I was a lapsed agnostic (?). She's a woman, and I am a man. She has curly hair, and I don't...
    So, if I had felt a mixed marriage was not desirable, I wouldn't have married her.
    But I did. Because, as long as two people really love each other blah blah blah....
    Last edited by danielfranco; 3rd May 2006 at 12:31 AM. Reason: typos
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  3. #43
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    Re: positive and negative aspects of mixed marriages

    I agree with Daniel, it may sound corny, but as long as two people love each other, the marriage should succeed, and there are a lot of cases that confirm this "theory".
    Love isn't a matter of culture or nationality, I think. I don't see negative aspects at least.
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  4. #44
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    Re: positive and negative aspects of mixed marriages

    I think mixed couples can learn a lot from each other (maybe one can teach the other a language ) I see nothing wrong with it.

    Bien
    Más contexto, más contento. Ayúdenos a mejorar las traducciones. Denos contexto.

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    Re: cross-cultural love

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando
    I agree with maxiogee. The usual woman comment: 'I 'll call you tomorrow' means: 'I will torture you for weeks till you have no self-respect and YOU call me".
    Or, if a man actually does "call you tomorrow" after a first date, all of your girlfriends drive you crazy by wondering what is wrong with him that he isn't playing games with you? Does he live with his mother? Own 10 cats?
    You can't win for losing.

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  6. #46
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    Re: What is racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by .,, View Post
    Answering difficult questions posed in an attempt to clarify ambiguous provocative posts. This is the type of work that the original poster considers too difficult to do.
    There are only difficulties in cross cultural marriages when viewed through bigotted eyes.

    .,,
    I disagree with crosscultural marriages. There are a lot of difficulties with cross cultural marriages. An American dating a Chinese person would require both people to learn about each others' cultures and traditions to not step on each others' toes in misunderstandings. I definitely discourage intercultural marriages. But if it works, then congratulations! More cultural interaction will result.

    But interracial marriages are a different thing. Race and "ethnicity" should not matter and therefore interracial marriages ought to be a natural thing in multiethnic societies. The fact that it isn't very common reflects the continued presence of racism and the resultant segregation of society into racially-defined cultures. "White" Americans and "Black", "Latino", and "Asian" Americans should not be afraid to date each other. I hope to see a rise in interracial marriages which generally reflects a decline in racial segregation.
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    Re: What is racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    I disagree with crosscultural marriages. There are a lot of difficulties with cross cultural marriages. An American dating a Chinese person would require both people to learn about each others' cultures and traditions to not step on each others' toes in misunderstandings. I definitely discourage intercultural marriages. But if it works, then congratulations! More cultural interaction will result.

    But interracial marriages are a different thing. Race and "ethnicity" should not matter and therefore interracial marriages ought to be a natural thing in multiethnic societies. The fact that it isn't very common reflects the continued presence of racism and the resultant segregation of society into racially-defined cultures. "White" Americans and "Black", "Latino", and "Asian" Americans should not be afraid to date each other. I hope to see a rise in interracial marriages which generally reflects a decline in racial segregation.
    Thanks for the congratulations.
    I will let my Yugoslav wife know that she and I have your approval.
    This is a most confusing post and I am not sure which way to understand your mind on this matter.

    .,,

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    Re: What is racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    I disagree with crosscultural marriages. There are a lot of difficulties with cross cultural marriages. ...But if it works, then congratulations! More cultural interaction will result.
    I don't disagree with crosscultural marriages. Most marriages involves female and male perspectives, and that's as much a cultural divide as anything you might point to.
    Frankly, for me to disagree with a choice two other people--any two other people--make regarding marriage would be presumptuous. I have quite a few friends and neighbors who have what you seem to characterize as "crosscultural marriages", and they don't appear to have any special difficulties.
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    Re: What is racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    I disagree with crosscultural marriages. There are a lot of difficulties with cross cultural marriages. An American dating a Chinese person would require both people to learn about each others' cultures and traditions to not step on each others' toes in misunderstandings. I definitely discourage intercultural marriages. But if it works, then congratulations! More cultural interaction will result.

    But interracial marriages are a different thing. Race and "ethnicity" should not matter and therefore interracial marriages ought to be a natural thing in multiethnic societies. The fact that it isn't very common reflects the continued presence of racism and the resultant segregation of society into racially-defined cultures. "White" Americans and "Black", "Latino", and "Asian" Americans should not be afraid to date each other. I hope to see a rise in interracial marriages which generally reflects a decline in racial segregation.
    Wow, what a load of preconceptions —
    a) What is wrong with learning about the cultural background of the one you love? You're going to marry this person, there's loads of things you need to learn about each other, one more category won't matter.
    b) What's the difference between 'intercultural' and 'interracial'?
    c) Do black, white, Latino and Asian people not have different cultural baggage?
    d) Are you not just a being a bigotted nationalist about 'foreigners'? Surely a white American of Irish extraction would have about as much in common with an Irish-born person as they would with a black American?
    e) "I definitely discourage intercultural marriages. But if it works, then congratulations! More cultural interaction will result." What? You're against it, but you favour the results it produces?
    f) Has it not occurred to you that someone with a white, ten generation, rural background in say, Wyoming is more likely to be culturally different from a ten generation New Yorker than from someone with ten generations of rural Latino Texan background?

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    Re: What is racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxiogee View Post
    Wow, what a load of preconceptions —
    a) What is wrong with learning about the cultural background of the one you love? You're going to marry this person, there's loads of things you need to learn about each other, one more category won't matter.

    I never said learning about the cultural background of the one you love is wrong.

    b) What's the difference between 'intercultural' and 'interracial'?

    That is a very dangerous statement you are making. If you believe interracial = intercultural, then therefore a black person can never have the same culture as a white person (not same race, therefore not same culture), and therefore a black person can never become Irish (he/she being neither "ethnically" Irish nor culturally Irish). i.e. The only true Irish people are white, all non-white "Irish" are foreigners. And therefore all immigration is bad (except for immigration of "ethnic" Irish) because it will eventually make Irish people a minority in their own country. <-- This is racism.

    c) Do black, white, Latino and Asian people not have different cultural baggage?
    EDIT: No, being "genetically" black/white/Latino/Asian alone does not give a person different cultural baggage. But due to racism in society that leads to ethnic segregation be it voluntary or involuntary, the reality is usually yes.

    The reality is usually yes, but this is due to racism in society that leads to ethnic segregation be it voluntary or involuntary. But being of a different race alone does not give a person different cultural baggage.


    d) Are you not just a being a bigotted nationalist about 'foreigners'? Surely a white American of Irish extraction would have about as much in common with an Irish-born person as they would with a black American?
    I do not view all cultures to be equal -- if that is bigotry, then I am a bigot. But unlike bigots, I try to read up on other cultures and evaluate them objectively instead of dismissing them solely because they are foreign.

    But I am not a bigot in the sense of being a racist.

    e) "I definitely discourage intercultural marriages. But if it works, then congratulations! More cultural interaction will result." What? You're against it, but you favour the results it produces?

    Look, I will clarify what I meant:
    Intercultural marriages are riskier than other marriages. I discourage intercultural marriages because they are risky. However, if two individuals have more in common in terms of their personality and are able to overcome cultural differences and form a happy family, then that is great and will benefit themselves and society. Whoever is in a crosscultural marriage that is working, congratulations!

    It's like a kid diving into the deep end on her first day at swimming class. I wouldn't recommend it cuz she could drown, but if she manages to stay afloat, then she has learned more from that experience than all the other kids in her class, and is therefore worth commending.

    f) Has it not occurred to you that someone with a white, ten generation, rural background in say, Wyoming is more likely to be culturally different from a ten generation New Yorker than from someone with ten generations of rural Latino Texan background?
    Why are you bringing up race? Are you associating race with culture again?

    Of course that someone from Wyoming with a white, ten generation background has more in common with the rural Latino Texan. Based on my previous posts on multiculturalism and racism, it is shocking to me that you would even suspect I would think otherwise.
    Last edited by vince; 8th October 2006 at 11:04 PM.
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  11. #51
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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince
    Maxiogee: Do black, white, Latino and Asian people not have different cultural baggage?
    The reality is usually yes, but this is due to racism in society that leads to ethnic segregation be it voluntary or involuntary. But being of a different race alone does not give a person different cultural baggage. Make up your mind. Regardless of the causes, you have stated that "the reality is usually yes". Read your own words. You have agreed that different races have different cultural baggage. How they come to have it, and whether this is just and fair and desireable is a different subject. It was a yes/no question and your answer was "yes".

    Maxiogee: d) Are you not just a being a bigotted nationalist about 'foreigners'? Surely a white American of Irish extraction would have about as much in common with an Irish-born person as they would with a black American?

    I do not view all cultures to be equal -- if that is bigotry, then I am a bigot. That IS bigotry. But unlike bigots, I try to read up on other cultures and evaluate them objectively instead of dismissing them solely because they are foreign. Objectively (sic) judging other cultures through the filter of your own?

    But I am not a bigot in the sense of being a racist. Logic says otherwise. You have said that a race has specific cultural baggage. That means a race has cultural distinctions. Then you "objectively" read up on and evaluate, and find some better than others. That sure sounds like racial bigotry.

    e) "I definitely discourage intercultural marriages. But if it works, then congratulations! More cultural interaction will result." What? You're against it, but you favour the results it produces?

    Look, I will clarify what I meant:
    Intercultural marriages are riskier than other marriages. Prove it! Conventional wisdom has it that about half of all marriages in the US end in divorce. Do you have a reason to believe, or data to persuade us, that intercultural marriages are inherently more apt to fail? I discourage intercultural marriages because they are risky. However, if two individuals have more in common in terms of their personality and are able to overcome cultural differences and form a happy family, Stop right there!! You assume, wrongly, that formation of a happy family requires that people "overcome cultural differences". Has it not crossed your mind that the formation of a happy family might include keeping, nay, highlighting such differences? then that is great and will benefit themselves and society. Whoever is in a crosscultural marriage that is working, congratulations!

    It's like a kid diving into the deep end on her first day at swimming class. I wouldn't recommend it cuz she could drown, but if she manages to stay afloat, then she has learned more from that experience than all the other kids in her class, and is therefore worth commending.

    And nobody ever drowns in shallow water? It's a terrible analogy, but swim with it if that's what makes you float.

    Maxiogee: f) Has it not occurred to you that someone with a white, ten generation, rural background in say, Wyoming is more likely to be culturally different from a ten generation New Yorker than from someone with ten generations of rural Latino Texan background? Why are you bringing up race? Are you associating race with culture again? Are you denying that race and culture may be related? If you are, then please reread and then rewrite your earlier comments. You appear to be at odds with yourself from one paragraph to another.
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  12. #52
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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    You are wholly misinterpreting me. I do not believe that "a race has specific cultural baggage" as you claim that I believe.

    I said:
    The reality is usually yes, but this is due to racism in society that leads to ethnic segregation be it voluntary or involuntary.

    But right after, I said:
    But being of a different race alone does not give a person different cultural baggage.

    Usually yes: many members of the "Latino" ethnic group choose to be culturally Latin American. But this does not mean that members of this ethnic group are genetically determined to have this culture. There are many examples of "non-white" people who are unfairly called "white-washed" (since some associate mainstream American culture with Whiteness), who are just culturally American rather than adhering to a culture just because it was that of their ancestors. In this way, these people are not culturally different from "white" Americans. But you and maxiogee seem to be insinuating that by virtue of the racial difference, they are culturally different as well. What exactly makes them different from "white" Americans?

    Am I forbidden from being culturally American because I am not white? Are people of Pakistani "descent" in America forever bound to eating spicy food, wearing hijab, and having arranged marriages? Or will they ever have the choice to do these things or not do these things? Are they bound to this cultural baggage?

    Prove it! Conventional wisdom has it that about half of all marriages in the US end in divorce. Do you have a reason to believe, or data to persuade us, that intercultural marriages are inherently more apt to fail?
    ...
    And nobody ever drowns in shallow water?


    All things equal, yes. People drown in shallow water too, but all things being equal, they are more likely to drown in deep water.

    A lot of people have divorces, but all other things being equal (personality, love, passion, etc), intercultural marriages are more likely to fail. It's a normal marriage, plus many additional obstacles to overcome.




    In hindsight, maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase "I disagree with crosscultural marriages". Because crosscultural marriages can work in many cases. They just are (all other things being equal) harder to make last.
    Last edited by vince; 8th October 2006 at 7:17 AM.
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  13. #53
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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    G'day Vince,
    Your posts remind me of the bloke trying to dig himself out of a hole by using the same methods that got him hole bound in the first place.
    You have your own views about cross-cultural marriage but I am not sure if you have made these views clear to those trying to read them.
    How can you say that cross-cultural marriages are more prone to failure than intra-cultural marriages.
    I have three brothers.
    Brother number one has had three failed intra-cultural marriages.
    Brother number two had one failed intra-cultural marriage.
    I am in the middle of my only marriage and it is inter-cultural.
    My youngest brother is in the middle of his only marriage and it is intra-cultural.
    All four of us sprang from the same stock which was an inter-cultural marriage.
    The stastics on this small sample indicate seven marriages with five failures that were all inter-cultural, one successful inter-cultural marriage and one successful intra-cultural marriage.
    I have just returned home from my in-laws home and the cultural differences are staggering but this has never been a bone of contention between the wife and I. It is simply not an issue. We find plenty of other stuff to burr up about but her being a wog and me being a skip has never given us a moments pause.
    My wife has one brother who married out of his culture and he married a different kind of wog to his kind of wog and two children later they are still going strong.
    I have no idea where you are getting your information but I suspect that your sample pool is not indicative of the general populace.

    .,,

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    Re: What is racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    [B]Why are you bringing up race? Are you associating race with culture again?
    Why am "I" bringing up race? That's a really good question, and it's a shame it's not a valid one. I was respondiing to you. You are the one who wrote the following…

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    But interracial marriages are
    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    Race and "ethnicity" should not matter
    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    interracial marriages ought to be
    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    presence of racism
    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    segregation of society into racially-defined cultures.
    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    a rise in interracial marriages
    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    decline in racial segregation.
    You brought up, and intermingled race, culture and ethnicity! Remember?


    Then you made the absolute stunner of a comment - That is a very dangerous statement you are making.

    Now, what prompted this statement from you?
    I wrote…
    Quote Originally Posted by maxiogee
    (b) What's the difference between 'intercultural' and 'interracial'?
    …in response to your use of these descriptors of acceptable and unacceptable marriages.

    See that last character in my quote? It's a question mark.
    The most charitable thing I can think of to say to you, in response to your assertion that I have made "a very dangerous statement" is that if you cannot tell the difference between a statement and a question then maybe a language-based discussion forum is not the best place for you to get involved in debate.

    My word but you've got a neck like a jockey's rude bits!
    Last edited by maxiogee; 8th October 2006 at 9:04 PM.

  15. #55
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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    Quote Originally Posted by .,, View Post
    G'day Vince,
    Your posts remind me of the bloke trying to dig himself out of a hole by using the same methods that got him hole bound in the first place.
    You have your own views about cross-cultural marriage but I am not sure if you have made these views clear to those trying to read them.
    You are right about that, I don't think I have made what I am saying clear and people are misinterpreting me as some sort of racist.

    How can you say that cross-cultural marriages are more prone to failure than intra-cultural marriages.
    I have three brothers.
    Brother number one has had three failed intra-cultural marriages.
    Brother number two had one failed intra-cultural marriage.
    I am in the middle of my only marriage and it is inter-cultural.
    My youngest brother is in the middle of his only marriage and it is intra-cultural.
    All four of us sprang from the same stock which was an inter-cultural marriage.
    The stastics on this small sample indicate seven marriages with five failures that were all inter-cultural, one successful inter-cultural marriage and one successful intra-cultural marriage.
    .,,
    What do you define as intercultural? An Australian of British "background" with an Australian with "Chinese" or "Serb" background does not necessarily constitute an intercultural marriage. It may, depending on the specific circumstances of the two people.

    maxiogee, if you look at my quotes in context, you will see that the only time I mention race and culture together is when I am talking about
    multiculturalists and racists in society, and not of my own opinion. My opinion about everything to do with race and culture (including interracial and intercultural marriages) is summed up with my signature below. And could you please answer my question about the difference between a Westernized "Asian" American and a Westernized "white" American?
    Last edited by vince; 8th October 2006 at 8:10 PM.
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  16. #56
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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    Vince,
    Let me try to simplify this, as we are all getting tangled up in the words.

    You have said that you believe intercultural marriages are higher risk than intracultural marriages. Leaving aside all the other stuff about ethnicity, race, and culture, and accepting whatever you mean by 'intercultural', you haven't provided anything persuasive on this particular point. You have repeated it, sincerely I'm sure, but you haven't given others any reason to find agreement with you.

    .,, and I, for example, have personal experience that is contrary to your assumption of "higher risk". Maybe we are wrong, but so far we have no reasons to believe that we are wrong.
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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    You are right about that, I don't think I have made what I am saying clear and people are misinterpreting me as some sort of racist.

    What do you define as intercultural? An Australian of British "background" with an Australian with "Chinese" or "Serb" background does not necessarily constitute an intercultural marriage. It may, depending on the specific circumstances of the two people.
    Inter-cultural means that my wife was born and bred in Yugoslavia and is culturally Yugoslavian. I was born and bred in Australia and am culturally Australian. My marriage is inter-cultural.

    .,,

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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    Quote Originally Posted by cuchuflete View Post
    .,, and I, for example, have personal experience that is contrary to your assumption of "higher risk". Maybe we are wrong, but so far we have no reasons to believe that we are wrong.
    Recall that I said, "all things being equal".

    If two intercultural people love each other a lot, and have good matching personalities, and there is emotional passion between two people, and both have accepting family and friends, then chances are their marriage will have less risk than that of the average intracultural marriage. This probably explains the personal experiences of you and .,,.

    However, take an average intracultural marriage between two average people, and turn it into an intercultural marriage, then it will become riskier.

    What types of obstacles are there?
    - language barriers, the foreigner may not understand the subleties of your language, and/or their family might not understand you. You may have to learn the other language to become part of the family
    - different tastes, the foreigner listens to music / eats food from his/her home country, that you will have to adjust to, even if you don't like it
    - different type of family relations: her/his parents/grandparents might demand certain respect and courtesies that you aren't accustomed to
    - different set of manners and etiquette: her/his friends might get offended that you stay so far away when you talk to them, and don't shake/ give them a kiss every time you meet them. They may not like the way you eat, because it is how "uneducated people" eat in their home country. It may be unacceptable for a woman to swear or wear pants, even to people of your age group.
    - different customs/traditions: there may be different acceptable levels of modesty between the two cultures in terms of dress. They may have some annual festival where they eat some kind of food that disgusts you. They may have some kinds of traditions/ rites of passage that you consider sexist.

    I am not saying that people can't adjust and accomodate and learn about these cultural differences and therefore surmount them. I am just saying that these present additional challenges that intracultural marriages do not face.
    Last edited by vince; 8th October 2006 at 9:09 PM.
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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    maxiogee, if you look at my quotes in context, you will see that
    All I see is that you are the one tying yourself up in knots discussing race, culture and intermingling of either or both!

    And could you please answer my question about the difference between a Westernized "Asian" American and a Westernized "white" American?
    What on earth is a westernized "white" American?
    I poilitely decline to answer.
    Do you really think that one can differentiate between theoretical people?

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    Re: Cross-cultural love

    Quote Originally Posted by maxiogee View Post
    All I see is that you are the one tying yourself up in knots discussing race, culture and intermingling of either or both!


    If you say so.

    What on earth is a westernized "white" American?
    I poilitely decline to answer.
    Do you really think that one can differentiate between theoretical people?
    Fine. "Americanized" then.

    Are you saying that Americanized "Asian" people do not exist outside the theoretical realm?

    That they are culturally different from Americanized "white" people by virtue of their race? How so?
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