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Thread: Voi vs. Lei

  1. #21
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    Re: Un Consiglio In Italiano

    Quote Originally Posted by silviap
    A volte le scelte di questi dialoghisti sono discutibili. E già che ci sono, permettimi di dire che, a nome del resto d'Italia, l'accento romano imperante denota la poca attenzione che gli addetti ai lavori hanno relativamente a quanto hai accennato, e cito la "responsabilità che ha il dialoghista nei confronti dei piccoli utenti che praticamente imparano a parlare ascoltando quello che scriviamo noi!"
    Hai confuso il lavoro del dialoghista con quello del doppiatore.
    Noi scriviamo, loro interpretano.

    Vogliamo parlare dell'accento di certi prodotti doppiati a Milano?
    Bada che io detesto questo tipo di polemiche, siamo italiani, e ognuno ha la propria inflessione.
    L'importante è che si parli in italiano corretto, con poche scivolate, e con gli accenti giusti.
    Questo per me conta, tutto il resto è superfluo.
    Last edited by danalto; 30th January 2005 at 5:34 PM.

    *I'm not the only one but I wanna be the one*

  2. #22
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    Re: Un Consiglio In Italiano

    Quote Originally Posted by elisa
    really sorry if my sentence did offend you, I really didn't ment to. May be is my not proper use of english. As a discussion forum I was discussiong but probabily not in the right way.Hope that you will accept my apology.
    No problem, little misunderstandings make life an interesting place to stay!

    DDT
    Nescio ergo sum...pickle my altimeter!

  3. #23
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    Re: Un Consiglio In Italiano

    Ehm, veramente non si tratta di confusione dialoghista/doppiatore... parlavo di addetti ai lavori e ho messo entrambi nel calderone... Daniela mi ha già perdonato
    Please do not PM me, my PM box is full. You can send an email instead.

  4. #24
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    Lei/voi

    I noticed in one of the other threads (restaurant translation) that someone was translating with Votre and Vi instead of using the Lei or Loro form. Why would this be? Is the voi form sometimes used as a polite form??

  5. #25
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    Re: Lei/voi

    of course it is.
    It's a bit old-fashioned but, in written and formal Italian, it's still used.

  6. #26
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    Re: Lei/voi

    Thank you for replying, i do italian at high school and we have always been told, only Lei and Loro, so thats interesting to know!!

  7. #27
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    voi vs. lei

    Is voi used for the 3rd person singular formal in Southern Italy instead of lei? Non capisco.

  8. #28
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Quote Originally Posted by audia View Post
    Is voi used for the 3rd person singular formal in Southern Italy instead of lei? Non capisco.
    Yes. I'm from the south and I can tell you that VOI is pretty widespread here as a courtesy form, but it is not considered a standard use, so we wouldn't use it in formal contexts.

  9. #29
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Può essere d'aiuto questo link? Se fai una ricerca, vedrai che ce ne sono tanti sul argomento.
    That's an L (Lsp)

  10. #30
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Quote Originally Posted by audia View Post
    Is voi used for the 3rd person singular formal in Southern Italy instead of lei? Non capisco.
    Not exactly:
    tu/lei/voi is a 3-choice form that has been used for a long time all over Italy to distinguish different relationships.

    "voi" was intermediate between "tu" (informal) and "lei" (formal): it was used as informal, from a lower-level person toward an elder or authoritative one.

    The social differences have been flattening by time, thus leading to progressive obsolescence of "voi". "Voi" surviving mainly as a form of respect from sons toward the father (or grand father), the head of family.
    I.e. limited - in the North - to the family-life use.

    The narrowing of the components of a family (farmer type of family to industrial type) contributed to further obsolescence and to the difference between northern and southern Italy (in south the industrial developement has been slower and families tend to be more crowded).

    The fascist era tried to enforce "voi" against "lei" as formal use (being "lei" taken from feminine form was not "macho" enough for the fascist ethics).
    But the law was a late one (1938, i think) didn't fare much and only had some limited effect in southern Italy (thus enlarging the gap between North and South as for the use of the "voi" form).

  11. #31
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Thanks for the interesting and extensive post, Marco. I was surprised to hear my older Southern relatives use voi with me . I have been doing some research and found that voi is also used more commonly for the 3rd person plural rather than loro.
    So in modern usage:
    Voi= 2nd and 3rd person plural
    Lei 3rd person sing.
    Loro= no longer used .
    Vero?

  12. #32
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Quote Originally Posted by audia View Post
    I have been doing some research and found that voi is also used more commonly for the 3rd person plural rather than loro.
    So in modern usage:
    Voi= 2nd and 3rd person plural
    Lei 3rd person sing.
    Loro= no longer used .
    Vero?
    Where did you read that? It is not true.
    If you refer to the VERY formal use of 'loro', it's true, but from what you say, it seems to me you're talking about the normal use of 'loro', ie the 3rd person plural.

  13. #33
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    I read it on one of the WR forums. Which of the statements is not true?

    Yes, sorry I mean when adressing a group formally not speaking about them. I was not clear about that.
    Last edited by TrentinaNE; 3rd March 2007 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Please use the edit button rather than post twice in succession.

  14. #34
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Quote Originally Posted by audia View Post
    Yes , sorry I mean when adressing a group formally not speaking about them. I was not clear about that.
    Ok, so it's true.
    Anyway, I want to clear this up a little.
    We have:

    NORMAL USAGE:
    Ogni giorno lei va a scuola (eg: that girl; 3rd pers sing)
    Dove eravate andati voi due? (2nd pers pl)
    Farò quello che mi dicono loro. (3rd pers pl)

    COURTESY USAGE:
    Se Lei lo desidera, può prenotare anche adesso. (grammatically: 3rd pers sing; in reality it's a 2nd pers sing)
    Se Voi volete, potete prendere l'autobus n. 15 (a common expression in Naples, if addressing an old lady, for example, but not considered standard nowadays)
    Se Loro desiderano, possono sedersi qui ad aspettare (very formal and not very widespread nowadays, when used instead of 'voi' addressing a group of people)

  15. #35
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Quote Originally Posted by audia View Post
    my older Southern relatives use voi with me
    ?!?!?
    As Vikgigio said is a form of courtesy, a bit feign for my taste but used.
    Maybe they were paying homage to your presence...

    So in modern usage:
    Voi= 2nd and 3rd person plural
    Lei 3rd person sing.
    Loro= no longer used .
    Vero?
    No.
    Lei= 3d sing feminine OR formal 2nd sing (both M and F)
    Loro= 3rd plur F & M
    Voi= 2nd plur F & M or obsolete courtesy form of 2nd sing M & F

    Forget about using formal "voi": as Vik told you is a not-required form of courtesy.
    If misused could be mistakenly understood as flattery or - worse - sarcasm.
    Ditto for "loro" in the formal way (2nd plur). You can safely ignore it.
    Last edited by MarcoMac; 3rd March 2007 at 10:55 PM.

  16. #36
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoMac View Post
    Loro= 3rd plur F & M
    Loro is sometimes used also as formal 2nd plural person, but this is getting rarer and rarer.

  17. #37
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    Re: voi vs. lei

    Grazie a tutti (VOI).
    È chiarissimo adesso.!

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