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Thread: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

  1. #101
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Tutte le traduzioni mi paiono abbastanza sgrammaticate. Mi spiace ma è la verità

  2. #102
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrius View Post
    ...Galicia where the local dialect (called gallego in Spanish) is almost the same as Portuguese.
    I BEG YOUR PARDON, Galician is a language in its own right, not a dialect, and it has written literature from the Middle Ages that pre-dates Castillian literature.

    Quote Originally Posted by yujuju View Post
    My theory is this:

    Spanish is Portuguese, spoken in an Italian way
    My theory is that Basque, Castillian as spoken in Northern Spain, Italian and Greek share phonetic similarities that are distinctly different from the phonetic similarity existing between European Portuguese and Catalan.

    Quote Originally Posted by sopdit View Post
    J ...since Portuguese came from ancient (Castillian) Spanish, and Castillian evolved from "latin vulgar".
    Galician and Portuguese were the same language, spoken in North-western Iberia before Portugal even existed, eventually deriving into two different yet close languages. Castillian was in those days a minority language, not worthy enough to be chosen by the king of Castile himself -Alfonso the 10th- to compose a book of poems to Our Lady: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantiga...nta_Mar%C3%ADa a masterpiece of Galician medieval literature.

    I speak Spanish, Portuguese and Galician, I can get by in French and I am learning Italian. I see that Italian, French and Catalan have a lot more in common than they do with Spanish, Galician or Portuguese, notwithstanding the fact that they all started out as dialects of dog Latin

    MA dixit
    Last edited by Miguel Antonio; 19th December 2007 at 7:52 PM. Reason: spelling

  3. #103
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Antonio View Post
    I BEG YOUR PARDON, Galician is a language in its own right, not a dialect, and it has written literature from the Middle Ages that pre-dates Castillian literature.



    My theory is that Basque, Castillian as spoken in Northern Spain, Italian and Greek share phonetic similarities that are distinctly different from the phonetic similarity existing between European Portuguese and Catalan.



    Galician and Portuguese were the same language, spoken in North-western Iberia before Portugal even existed, eventually deriving into two different yet close languages. Castillian was in those days a minority language, not worthy enough to be chosen by the king of Castile himself -Alfonso the 10th- to compose a book of poems to Our Lady: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantiga...nta_Mar%C3%ADa a masterpiece of Galician medieval literature.

    I speak Spanish, Portuguese and Galician, I can get by in French and I am learning Italian. I see that Italian, French and Catalan have a lot more in common than they do with Spanish, Galician or Portuguese, notwithstanding the fact that they all started out as dialects of dog Latin

    MA dixit
    I salute you sir! Spanish is my second language (although I love it dearly and now probably use it more than my native English) and I have very little trouble understanding my Brasilian friends speaking Portuguese. Also, while I can get the meaning, more or less, of what my Italian speaking friends are saying, I had not a clue the entire time I was in France. Couldn't understand a word. My only respite came when I met a waiter from Spain at a restaurant in Paris!


    Rogelio
    Dios nos bendice para que podamos bendecir a otros

  4. #104
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by carloscarlo View Post
    Similitudes portugaises françaises espagnoles italiennes : Les Français et les Espagnols sont plus semblables en ce que : Ils contractent seulement le masculin. etc...
    This is what I understood just by reading these texts using Spanish.


    FRENCH.
    Similitudes portugaises françaises espagnoles italiennes : Les Français et les Espagnols sont plus semblables en ce que : Ils contractent seulement le masculin. Toutes les prépositions sont généralement identiques. Ils ne maintiennent pas le possessif avec un article. L'Italien et les Portugais sont plus semblables en ce que : Ils contractent le féminin et masculin. Les prépositions changent quant au genre et à la pluralité. Ils maintiennent le possessif en plus de l'article.

    My 1st Draft. Similitudes portuguesas francesas españolas italianas: Los Franceses e los españoles son mas similares en “se” que: El contiene solamente el masculino. Todas las preposiciones son generalmente idénticas. El no mantiene “pas” el posesivo con articulo. El Italiano e el Portugués son más semejantes en “se” que: El contiene el femenino e masculino. Las preposiciones “changent” cuando un genero e a la pluralidad. El mantiene el posesivo en mas del articulo.

    As I was reading it felt that that "Ills" maybe the plural not singular, so on my second draft I used the plural and adjusted the text, “changent” looks like English Change so I would venture and extrapolate that’s the French for “cambio”, "et" I'm reminded of the old Spanish "e" and then I changeed the old spanish “e” for our modern “y”, the “pas” looks like our “pos” so I assumed -maybe incorrectly- it means “pues”. That “ce” that I read as “se” doesn’t bother me in Spanish but since I don’t know what it means, I find no use for it and I will remove it…

    My 2nd. atempt at a Draft. Similitudes portuguesas francesas españolas italianas: Los Franceses y los españoles son más similares en que: Ellos tienen solamente el masculino. Todas las preposiciones son generalmente idénticas. Ellos no mantienen pues el posesivo con un artículo. El Italiano y el Portugués son más semejantes en que: Ellos contienen el femenino y masculino. Las preposiciones cambian cuando un genero y a la pluralidad. Ellos mantienen el posesivo en más del artículo.
    ****************

    ITALIAN.
    Somiglianze portoghesi francesi spagnole italiane: I francesi e gli Spagnoli sono più simili in quanto: Contraggono soltanto il maschile. Tutte le preposizioni sono generalmente le stesse. Non effettuano il possessivo con un articolo. L'italiano & i Portoghesi sono più simili in quanto: Contraggono sia il femminile che maschile. Le preposizioni cambiano quanto al genere ed alla pluralità. Effettuano il possessivo oltre che l'articolo.

    My 1st. Draft. “Somiglianza” portuguesa Francesa Española Italiana: Y el Francés y “gli” Español son “piu” similares en cuanto: “Contraggono” soltando el “maschile”. Todas las preposiciones son generalmente las estas. No efectuando el posesivo con un artículo. El italiano y el portuguese son “piu” similar en cuanto: “Contraggono” sea el femenino que “maschile”. La preposición cambiando cuando al género y a la pluralidad. Efectuando el posesivo al otro que el articulo.

    I don’t know what “Contraggono” and “maschile” are, by context “gli” might be “el”, piu by context and sounds like the French “Plus” I read as “muy”.

    My 2nd draft. “Semejanza” portuguesa Francesa Española Italiana: Y el Frances y el Español son muy similares en cuanto: “Contraggono” soltando el “maschile”. Todas las preposiciones son generalmente estas”. No efectuando el posesivo con un artículo. El italiano y el portugués son muy similar en cuanto: “Contraggono” sea el femenino que “maschile”. La preposición cambiando en cuanto al género y a la pluralidad. Efectuando el posesivo al otro que el artículo.
    **********

    PORTUGUESE.
    Similaridades portuguese francesas espanholas italianas: Os franceses e os espanhóis são mais similares naquele: Contraem somente o masculine. Todas as preposições são geralmente as mesmas. Não mantêm o possessivo com um artigo. O italiano & os portuguêses são mais similares naquele: Contraem o feminine e masculine. As preposições mudam a respeito do gender e do plurality. Mantêm o possessivo além ao artigo.

    My 1st. Draft. Similaridad portuguesas, francesas española italianas: Los franceses y los españoles son muy similares en que: Contraen solamente lo masculino. Todas las preposiciones son generalmente las mismas. No mantienen lo posesivo con un “artigo”. Los italianos y los portugueses son mas similares en que: Contraen lo femenino y masculino. Las preposiciones mudan al respecto de género y de pluralidad. Mantienen lo posesivo “alem” a el “artigo”.

    Changed the “lo” as I understood at first for “el” since it reads better, a more common way to say “mudar” is “cambiar”, “similares” I changed it to “parecidos” , in the 2nd. Draft.

    My 2nd. Draft. Similitudes portuguesas, francesas española italianas: Los franceses y los españoles son muy similares en que: Contraen solamente el masculino. Todas las preposiciones son generalmente las mismas. No mantienen lo posesivo con un “artigo”. Los italianos y los portugueses son más parecidos en que: Contraen el femenino y masculino. Las preposiciones cambian con respecto a género y pluralidad. Mantienen el posesivo “alem” a el “artigo”.
    **********
    These are the translations into English of what I think the original texts say:

    What I understood from the French text, based on my Spanish, I don’t speak French…
    Portuguese French Spanish Italian similarities, The French and the Spanish “languages” are more similar in that: They have only the masculine. All of the prepositions are generally identical. They don’t keep the possessive with the article. The Italian and Portuguese are more similar in that: They have the feminine and the masculine. The prepositions change when a gender and plural. They keep the possessive more of the article.

    What I understood from the Italian text, based on my Spanish I don’t speak Italian…
    Portuguese French Spanish Italian similarity: And the French and the Spanish "languages" are very similar in that: “Contraggono?” freeing the “maschile?“. All prepositions generally are these. Not doing the possessive with an article. Italian and in Portuguese are very similar in that: “Contraggono?” the feminine be that “maschile?”. The preposition changing in gender and plurality. Doing the possessive to the other that the article”.

    What I understood from the Portuguese text, based on my Spanish, I don’t speak Portuguese…
    Portuguese French Spanish Italian similarities, The French and the Spanish “languages” are very similar in that: Contract only the masculine. All of the prepositions are generally the same. They don’t keep the possessive with one “artigo?”. The Italian and Portuguese are more similar in that: They contract the feminine and the masculine. The prepositions change with respect to gender and plurality. They keep the possessive “alem?” to the “artigo?”.

    In these small examples, Portuguese was the easiest to read using Spanish, and then French, I don’t know why I found Italian more difficult…
    Last edited by HUMBERT0; 1st February 2011 at 7:17 AM.
    Melius est reprehendant grammatici quam non intellegant populi.

  5. #105
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Hola Aedude 94, yo hablo ingles, italiano, espanol, portuguese y frances. Aprendi espanol primero...te diria que, dependiendo de tu nivel de espanol, es muy facil aprender el portugues e menos facil el italiano y frances. Empieza primero con la pronuciacion, luego la conjugacion de verbos. Una vez dominados esos dos elementos, compra un libro basico de gramatica y busca oportunidades de practicar con gente "nativa." Buena suerte!!

  6. #106
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    They are deeply similars...so as Portuguese and Italian are deeply similars (of course also Portuguese and Spanish)...in some cases is even possible to write or to speak directly in dialect...as someone has already underlined.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulfromitaly View Post
    The first time I read some Catalan I was quite surprised by how similar it was to my dialect (Brescia - Bergamo dialect): I could get most of the words although I don't speak and I've never studied neither Catalan nor Spanish.
    Oji cca chiovia.
    Hoje cá chovia.

    It is just an example...

  7. #107
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Although aspects of Italian are remarkably similar to Spanish, especially pure pronunciation, some vocabulary words, the maintaining of all latin endings in verbs and nouns (o, a for example), I think the grammar (ne, ci, intransitive verbs conjugated with essere)and vocabulary (mangiare, formaggio, bere just to name a few) actually resemble French much more. The two cannot be understood by the other though due to the radically different pronunciation.

  8. #108
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by merquiades View Post
    Although aspects of Italian are remarkably similar to Spanish, especially pure pronunciation, some vocabulary words, the maintaining of all latin endings in verbs and nouns (o, a for example), I think the grammar (ne, ci, intransitive verbs conjugated with essere)and vocabulary (mangiare, formaggio, bere just to name a few) actually resemble French much more. The two cannot be understood by the other though due to the radically different pronunciation.
    I wouldn't be so imperative. When speaking clearly and slowly, and with the explicit purpose of being understood, it does exist a good degree of mutual understanding between French and Italian.

  9. #109
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by federicoft View Post
    I wouldn't be so imperative. When speaking clearly and slowly, and with the explicit purpose of being understood, it does exist a good degree of mutual understanding between French and Italian.
    Ok. I won't. I'll let you be the judge of what Italians can understand of French. I thought the pronunciation difference and all those endings cut off would be a major obstacle. If not, I celebrate being wrong.

  10. #110
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Antonio View Post
    I BEG YOUR PARDON, Galician is a language in its own right, not a dialect, and it has written literature from the Middle Ages that pre-dates Castillian literature.
    .
    MA dixit
    Right. Lots of the socalled "dialects" of Italian are languages in their own right as well. Just as well as Low-German languages are. And as someone pointed out, Danish and Norwegian are similar but considered different languages. There is less difference between Norwegian and Danish than there is between Castellano and Galician or Català.

    It is only a political thing - a means of opressing smaller cultures. And why is Norwegian a language of its own? They gained autonomy over a century ago. Also politics.

  11. #111
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Here's the thing, I lived in Italy for 3 years. my first 3 mos in Italy I used full blown Spanish to get around. In fact, I was stationed aboard a military vessel and served as a translator, basically translating Italian to English, by using Spanish. Anyway many Spanish speakers get confused by Italian because the sing song accent throws them off, but to me Spanish and Italian are essentially the same language, minus a few small change. While portuguese and Spanish are generally closer (portanol) because the prononunciation is so different a Native Spanish Speaker will have a quicker progression in Italian. I would also say that Verbs In Italian and Spanish are about 95 percent the same ej. correr/correre, andar/andare, leer/lire, mirar/mirare, caminar/caminare, with conjugation really close. an Italian speaker will probably understand a spanish speaker easier though. Portugues on the other hand is really more a mixture of Spanish, Italian and French. The accent (the bravado of Italian, using Spanish words with the endings changed ej (cancao/cancion, hermao/hermano, etc) using a somewhat french tone. If this makes sense to you.

    In closing, if you want to explore the romance languages here is the progression you should take and here's why
    spanish, to Italian, to French, to Portuguese , Why in Italian what doesn't look like spanish looks like english or French, in French what doesn't look like italian looks like english, and in portuguese it is a mixture of all three, the words will look either spanish italian or French. In fact if you have a strong base in spanish/Italian or Italian/French or French/Spanish then portuguese will be a breeze for you. If you go in a different order it will take longer. My experience using this route I was able to be really good in each language in 3-4 months. Lastly, The stronger your vocabulary in english (that is british english) the easier time you will have. Why? there are words in Latin languages that exist in English but are more often used in british, not american english. Just in case your are wondering, no. I didn't feel like hitting the caps button oh yeah if your thinking of learning Romanian, then it's best you learn two of these first and perhaps an eastern european language as Romanian is sort of a mixture of 50 percent Italian and the rest east. european. Hope this helps...
    Last edited by dfrederick; 10th April 2013 at 7:43 AM.

  12. #112
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by TimLA View Post
    Spanish is my second language, and there are similarities between the two. Often, in Italy I see Spaniards speaking Spanish to Italians, and the Italians speaking Italian back to them, and they get along. But I must tell you, Italian is MUCH more difficult. I've been working on it for quite a while now, and I do OK, but the subtleties are very complex -- you'll need to work very hard. In my opinion, you get about 20% of Italian if you speak Spanish...the rest is hard labor

  13. #113
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    This must come down to a matter of opinion or a different understanding of language. my first few mos in italy I used Spanish to get around (as you have mentioned) then slowly converted it to Italian. It will be easier for you as a second language Spanish to first figure out the main differences and then line up the similarities. generally speaking spanish and Italian are within the 90 percentile range where similarities are concerned. After seperating the differences, you will need to revert back to english because in Italian if it doesn't look like spanish, more often it draws a strong similiarity to english. Example ej. disubbidiente/disobedient, suocera/ sorcerist (mother in law a witch). cugino/cousin etc you get the picture. so again if you don't see spanish look for english and you will do fine. I think it only takes about 3 mos to make a strong conversion from Spanish to Italian.

  14. #114
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sepia View Post
    Right. Lots of the socalled "dialects" of Italian are languages in their own right as well. Just as well as Low-German languages are. And as someone pointed out, Danish and Norwegian are similar but considered different languages. There is less difference between Norwegian and Danish than there is between Castellano and Galician or Català.

    It is only a political thing - a means of opressing smaller cultures. And why is Norwegian a language of its own? They gained autonomy over a century ago. Also politics.
    Danish and Norwegian (Bokmål) are similar only in writing, the pronunciation is much more different than betwen Spanish and Portuguese, the spoken forms differ almost as much as Italian and French. For an untrained Norwegian ear only about 40% of spoken Danish is comprehensible.

  15. #115
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    yeah true. but more simply said, if it does not look like spanish it will look like french. further in French if it doesn't look like Italian it looks like and english word. yes also this is where many people get tripped up. first you need to figure out the similarities and derivatives, then after that it's all vocab differences because I would say the verbs are about 90 percent the same. Over complicating the situation with intrans, preterito, etc only complicates the matter as most italian couldn't even begin to tell you about this stuff. The same goes for english, the av. english speaker would struggle with what is an article (def or indef).

  16. #116
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Antonio View Post
    I speak Spanish, Portuguese and Galician, I can get by in French and I am learning Italian. I see that Italian, French and Catalan have a lot more in common than they do with Spanish, Galician or Portuguese, notwithstanding the fact that they all started out as dialects of dog Latin
    Not "dog Latin" but "Vulgar Latin". "Dog Latin" is mock Latin, like this:

    Caesar ad sum jam forti
    Brutus et erat
    Caesar sic in omnibus
    Brutus sic in at

    Caesar (h)ad some jam for tea
    Brutus ate a rat
    Caesar sick in omnibus
    Brutus sick in (h)at

  17. #117
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfrederick View Post
    This must come down to a matter of opinion or a different understanding of language.
    Absolutely.

    In my case:

    · I have never studied Italian
    · When I was a boy I learned French, Spanish and Latin
    · When I was a boy I learned to play the piano
    · I love opera and have followed many Italian operas with the libretto or score in Italian
    · I have watched quite a few Italian films with English sub-titles
    · I have been to Italy twice on holiday and picked up a bit from reading bilingual menus and signs

    Quite apart from the above, English and Italian share many words because English has many words derived from Latin, either directly or indirectly.

    The extent to which I can understand Italian when spoken depends on what is being spoken about and how clearly it is articulated. The extent to which I can understand Italian when written depends on what the text is about. In some cases I achieve (or think I achieve) complete comprehension. In some cases the understanding is partial. In some cases I am left puzzled.

    If I found myself among monolingual Italians I think I could achieve a reasonable level of basic communication where nothing important was at stake. However, if buying a house I would want an interpreter.

  18. #118
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Hullo, everyone.

    Q: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    A: Very. They are the most similar among the Romance languages.

    GS

  19. #119
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    In my opinion, French and Catalan grammar and vocabulary are much more similar to Italian than the Castilian ones. Some Spanish speaking people may have difficulty in learning some particles such as ci, ce, ne, vi ve or some verbs like caversela, farcela, mettercela essercene, averne and so on. The correct use of the auxiliary verbs is also tricky sometimes. Besides, there are lots of false friends between Italian and Spanish, some words sound similar but have a completely different meaning. In three months a person could learn to speak a good spanitalish, but speaking the other language properly is a different matter. Some people have been living in Italy for decades and they still mix up some words, can't pronounce double consonants properly and even the structure of the language is essentially Spanish. Obviously, the opposite is true, too. I agree that the mutual intelligibility between the two languages is rather high but as I said above it is extremely easy to get hold of the wrong end of the stick.
    Last edited by olaszinho; 15th April 2013 at 6:35 PM. Reason: oo
    El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

  20. #120
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    Re: Italian/Spanish: How similar are they?

    Let me tell you some indirect experiences of a non native speaker (neighter Spanish nor Italian):

    1. My Argentinian friend, whom I met the first time in the Politecnico of Turin about 3-4 weeks after his arrivial in Italy, had absolutely no problems to communicate with people in Italy. He did not speak Italian at all, but with his Spanish (and later with some kind of improvisation) he was spontaneousely able to undersand/express almost everything. Even more, he often understood better some "situations" than me, although I spoke Italian (to a certain degree, of course) already in those times ...

    2. My Italian friend who speaks only Italian, the Bolognese dialect and some very basic French (from school), generally understood better the news from a Mexican Spanish speaking TV channel than me, though I already had some knowledge of Spanish (and Italian) ...

    3. My Bolognese friend (mentioned in the previous point) and his wife (she speaks only Italian, Ferrarese and some French from school) after their holiday in Northern Spain (traveling by motor-bike) have told me that they didn't have any communication problems in Spain, but they didn't understand people speaking Catalonian and Bask (the Bask - of course, but I was a bit surprised by the Catalonian).

    Last edited by francisgranada; 15th April 2013 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Precision

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