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Thread: FR: de/des + adjectif + nom au pluriel

  1. #21
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    Let me disagree with you… It is indeed less elegant than de belles roses but not a mistake nor perceived as such – at least in Eastern France and Switzerland.

    Moreover des belles roses seems more natural in:
    Une belle rose, c'est bien ; des belles roses, c'est mieux !
    (when you want to stress that you have several roses rather than beautiful ones…)
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 8th May 2013 at 11:24 AM. Reason: consecutive posts merged

  2. #22
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    FR: de/des - de nouvelles situations

    Bonjour,

    est-ce quelqu'un peut m'expliquer quand utiliser "des" et quand "de+pluriel"

    par ex

    Assurez-vous qu'ils veuillent apprendre et qu'ils aient le courage d'affronter des/de nouvelles situations

    Merci

  3. #23
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    Re: de/des

    Je ne sais pas exactement mais instinctivement je mets De nouvelles situations, et non pas Des nouvelles. Peut-être à l'oreille, ça me semble plus évident.

  4. #24
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    Re: de/des

    Hum...
    Je pense que le problème vient en fait de 'nouveau'.

    We cannot say:
    'Découvrir de anciennes situations'.
    But:
    'Découvrir des anciennes situations'.

    Anyway, you can use 'des'.

    'De' is better but 'des nouvelles situations' is not wrong.

    I hope I could help you.

  5. #25
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    Re: de/des

    You might be interested in section A.5 of this article.
    […]
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 3rd September 2011 at 2:13 PM. Reason: threads merged

  6. #26
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    Re: FR: de/des - de nouvelles situations

    de nouvelles situations
    d'anciennes situations
    d'autres situations

    If the partitive particle de is followed by adjective, even if it is in plural form, it should always be de and not des. However, if the adjective that follows starts with a vowel, the de should be contracted to d'.

  7. #27
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    Re: manger de(s) bons sandwiches?

    des becomes de when the adjective precedes the noun.


    des fleurs, mais de belles fleurs.
    je suis donc je pense

  8. #28
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    Re: de/du bon travail

    "des" becomes "de" when the adjective is before a plural noun:
    "J'ai des vêtements"
    "J'ai de beaux vêtements"
    I think it is important to precise that "Tu as des beaux vêtements" is also possible: "Tu as de beaux vêtements", that's something that you nearly only write.

  9. #29
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    FR: de/des bonnes vacances

    Salut tout le monde!

    Je pense que la bonne construction est "passer de bonnes vacances", par exemple, après les vacances, je pourrais dire à un collègue, "j'espère que tu as passé de bonnes vacances".

    Le truc est que je ne comprends pas pourquoi c'est "passer de" et pas "passer des" bonnes vacances. Les vacances sont pluriels, n'est-ce pas? Est-ce qu'il y a quelqu'un qui peut éclairer ma laterne?

    Merci d'avance!

  10. #30
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    Re: FR: "passer DE" ou "passer DES bonnes vacances"

    Hello

    When a plural noun is preceded by an adjective, "des" becomes "de".
    "J'ai mangé des champignons (blancs)"
    "J'ai mangé de gros champignons"


    Supposedly, in colloquial language, you can say "des", but that's not what my grammar says

    I hope it's clearer

  11. #31
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    de vs. des

    Je veux juste clarifier, est-ce qu'on dit "il a des bonnes lignes" ou "il a de bonnes lignes". Mon camarade pense que quand il y a un adjectif if faut dire "de" et pas "des".
    Last edited by mieumieu; 4th November 2008 at 9:38 PM. Reason: typo

  12. #32
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    Re: de vs. des

    Quote Originally Posted by mieumieu View Post
    Je veux juste clarifier, est-ce qu'on dit "il a des bonnes lignes" ou "il a de bonnes lignes". Mon camarade pense que quand il y a un adjectif il faut dire "de" et pas "des".
    Both are possible. I think that purists prefer de bonnes lignes.

    "If you think you can or if you think you can't, you're probably right."

  13. #33
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    Re: de vs. des

    Quote Originally Posted by marget View Post
    Both are possible. I think that purists prefer de bonnes lignes.
    Not only the purists do , "des bonnes lignes" isn't totally incorrect but probably used in limited contexts. IMHO, I would rather say "de belles lignes", what are you talking about?
    Ceci n'est pas une signature

  14. #34
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    Re: de vs. des

    Quote Originally Posted by Punky Zoé View Post
    Not only the purists do , "des bonnes lignes" isn't totally incorrect but probably used in limited contexts. IMHO, I would rather say "de belles lignes", what are you talking about?
    I also say de belles lignes, but I think that based on the rule as described in grammar books these days, the usage is changing and that many people consider des (as well as de, of course) to be perfectly correct in front of plural adjectives that precede the noun. I probably misused the term "purists".

    "If you think you can or if you think you can't, you're probably right."

  15. #35
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    FR: 'Des' -> 'de' + adjectif pluriel

    Je m'intéresse à des choses irregulières ou inattendues quand j'apprends de nouvelles langues.

    Une de ces choses en le français est que le forme 'des' se transforme en 'de' lorsque l'on ajoute un adjectif devant le nom. Par exemple, dans ma première phrase j'ai écrit "de nouvelles langues." Sans l'adjectif 'nouvelles' j'aurais mis "des langues."

    Je voudrais en savoir plus.

    Est-ce que ça fonctionne comme ça exclusivement si l'adjectif précède le nom, mais pas s'il le suit?

    J'ai lu recemment dans "L'histoire de la langue française" de Mireille Huchon que l'Académie officialisa cette règle, mais l'auteur ne le mentionne que dans une phrase, sans en donner plus de renseignements.

    Est-ce qu'il y a une histoire intéressante derrière ce changement (comme est le cas pour, par exemple, l'usage de l'article dans "l'on")? Si oui, je voudrais en lire.

    Merci

  16. #36
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    Re: FR: 'Des' -> 'de' + adjectif pluriel

    Hello Tim,

    When you have an adjective which is in front of the noun, the indefinite article automatically becomes de, as shows the example found on this site:

    J'ai des fleurs rouges / j'ai de jolies fleurs.
    For more on these articles and their use, you can look here (see Section A5)

    Hope it helps.
    Last edited by Moon Palace; 1st March 2009 at 10:51 PM. Reason: corrected to stick to the question
    a different language is a different vision of life. F. Fellini Please do correct my mistakes

  17. #37
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    Re: FR: 'Des' -> 'de' + adjectif pluriel

    [...]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim~!
    Est-ce qu'il y a une histoire intéressante derrière ce changement (comme est le cas pour, par exemple, l'usage de l'article dans "l'on")?
    Sans doute, mais cela remonte à très loin et on manque de renseignements pour comprendre tous les aspects du développement de l'article partitif depuis l'ancien français. Grevisse (§584, a) fournit quelques éléments de réponse à ta question.
    Last edited by jann; 1st March 2009 at 10:50 PM. Reason: theads merged + broken URL removed: it's impossible to provide a link to the results of a search

  18. #38
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    FR: 'Des' -> 'de' + adjectif pluriel

    Thanks for the rapid response.

    I understand what happens. What interests me is why, whether there is a history behind it.

    Is there any reason why "J'ai des fleurs" keeps its indefinite article when we postpone the adjective ("J'ai des fleurs rouges") but loses it once we decide to place an adjective in front ("J'ai de jolies fleurs")?

    I imagine that, for the Académie to authorise the change, there must be some logic or history behind it.

    Or is it just one of those quirks that we have to learn, and which just happens "because"?

    Thanks again

    [...]
    Last edited by jann; 1st March 2009 at 10:51 PM. Reason: Comment deleted: you got "no matches" not b/c there aren't any, but b/c it's impossible to share links to search results

  19. #39
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    Re: FR: De or des in front of adjectives that come before the noun

    Tim,

    I'm afraid that I can't give you a reason, but I can tell you that the "rule" has nothing to do with postponing adjectives. The rule is that des > de before a prenominal adjective:
    J'ai des fleurs.
    J'ai des fleurs rouges.
    J'ai de jolies fleurs.
    J'ai de jolies fleurs rouges.

  20. #40
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    Re: FR: De or des in front of adjectives that come before the noun

    Yes, but learners must perhaps know that this rule is just recommended, not really mandatory. (So they will not be puzzled when they see that sometimes, it is not applied)

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