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Thread: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

  1. #21
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    You seem to be confusing the use of a verb, e.g. "writing" when it is employed as a noun.
    "He was busy writing"

    Tell me if here, "writing" is a noun or a verb? I think it is a verb. So is the aatishbazi a verb, the way "I" used it.

    It can be different in Urdu, I am not doubting it. Anyways, I would rather stop this discussion as it is going endless. If others are not convinced by my explanation, it is fine with me - I only explained, didn't try to "convince".

  2. #22
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by rahulbemba View Post
    "He was busy writing"

    Tell me if here, "writing" is a noun or a verb? I think it is a verb. So is the aatishbazi a verb, the way "I" used it.

    It is indeed a noun. If you care to look in any reputable English grammar book you will find that it would be termed as a "verbal noun" or a "gerund". Here is some useful explanation(not from a grammar book, as far as I know).

    http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/gerund.htm

    It can be different in Urdu, I am not doubting it. Anyways, I would rather stop this discussion as it is going endless. If others are not convinced by my explanation, it is fine with me - I only explained, didn't try to "convince".

    I could provide you with the full derivation of the compound word "aatish-baazii" but it will serve no useful purpose in the current circumstances. It might be beneficial if we were to think of this compound as "baazii" alone, which you will know the meaning of.

    Anyway, I agree with you to end this discussion. Your "explanation" has not been convincing for me.


  3. #23
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    rahulbemba: < "He was busy writing" Tell me if here, "writing" is a noun or a verb? I think it is a verb. So is the aatishbazi a verb, the wa y "I" used it. >

    qureshpor: < It is indeed a noun. If you care to look in any reputable English grammar book you will find that it would be termed as a "verbal noun" or a "gerund". >

    If "writing" is noun in "He was busy writing.", then my "aatishbazi" would also be noun and I would stand corrected. I had started the below forum in "English only" thread, and the response I got was that "writing" is a "verb" here.

    Thread: I was busy "writing" - is it verb?

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2238785

    Would request you to post your comment there also, and let some experts in English also review their grammar. If it is noun (gerund) and not verb, then taking your suggestion I would start referring to grammar books than relying on our portals!

    Thanks anyway.

  4. #24
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by rahulbemba View Post
    rahulbemba: < "He was busy writing" Tell me if here, "writing" is a noun or a verb? I think it is a verb. So is the aatishbazi a verb, the wa y "I" used it. >

    qureshpor: < It is indeed a noun. If you care to look in any reputable English grammar book you will find that it would be termed as a "verbal noun" or a "gerund". >

    If "writing" is noun in "He was busy writing.", then my "aatishbazi" would also be noun and I would stand corrected. I had started the below forum in "English only" thread, and the response I got was that "writing" is a "verb" here.

    Thread: I was busy "writing" - is it verb?

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2238785

    Would request you to post your comment there also, and let some experts in English also review their grammar. If it is noun (gerund) and not verb, then taking your suggestion I would start referring to grammar books than relying on our portals!

    Thanks anyway.
    No, I shall not post anything in that forum because I might end up quoting a couplet or two from an Urdu Ghazal! I have read suzi br's solitary reply and you do know that "One swallow does n't make a spring". Even if this lady is right, I am sorry to say, "aatishbaazii" still remains a noun!

    For your information......

    I was writing = maiN likh rahaa thaa/thii

    I was busy, writing = maiN likhne meN masruuf thaa/thii

    In the first, writing is a participle and hence a verb. In the second case, as I have stated earlier, it is a verbal noun! By all means take the advice of forum members but for a definitive answer you would agree that "The ink of a scholar('s pen) is more sacred than the blood of a martyr".
    Last edited by Qureshpor; 8th September 2011 at 12:18 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Maybe I can explain it as such before this thread blasts out of control.

    In Hindi we have the infinitive forms of verbs that end in na i.e. likhna, bhaagna, utarna, vagerah, vagerah.. In English this corresponds to two forms: to write and writing, to swim and swimming, to run and running, to disembark and disembarking. Those are all infinitive forms of verbs. In Hindi, we have a more simplistic form.

    So the test to see if aatishbaazi is a verb or not in this situation is the lack of the naa at the end. Neither can one say "maiN aatishbaazi rahaa hooN" or "main aatishbaazita hooN". Therefore, it would seem aatishbaazi is technically a noun in this situation. Comparison with English I think will confuse everyone further since English grammar rules are confusing to practically everyone.

  6. #26
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyspeed View Post
    Maybe I can explain it as such before this thread blasts out of control.

    In Hindi we have the infinitive forms of verbs that end in na i.e. likhna, bhaagna, utarna, vagerah, vagerah.. In English this corresponds to two forms: to write and writing, to swim and swimming, to run and running, to disembark and disembarking. Those are all infinitive forms of verbs. In Hindi, we have a more simplistic form.

    So the test to see if aatishbaazi is a verb or not in this situation is the lack of the naa at the end. Neither can one say "maiN aatishbaazi rahaa hooN" or "main aatishbaazita hooN". Therefore, it would seem aatishbaazi is technically a noun in this situation. Comparison with English I think will confuse everyone further since English grammar rules are confusing to practically everyone.
    Very good point. I agree with you by and large.

    There were more differences between patakha and atishbazi which prompted me to think one can be used as a verb also. E.g.

    This is correct: Mai atishbazi kar raha hun.
    This is incorrect: Mai patakha kar raha hun.

    Correct: मै आतिशबाजी कर रहा हूँ.
    Wrong: मै पटाखा कर रहा हूँ.
    Correct: मै पटाखे फोड़ रहा हूँ.

    Now in मै पटाखे फोड़ रहा हूँ, it is so clear that patakhe is a noun. But in मै आतिशबाजी कर रहा हूँ, it is getting confusing. A similar sentences is:

    मै प्रतीक्षा कर रहा हूँ. (I am waiting). Here, waiting is a verb or noun?

    Since I took the definition of verb as the one indicating "motion or movement", I thought in मै आतिशबाजी कर रहा हूँ, atishbazi would also be verb.

    Anyways, this has been a good discussion. Thanks to all.

  7. #27
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Are there any other synonyms for paTaak(kh,x)aa "fire-cracker" or for aatish-baazii "fire-works"?

  8. #28
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine9 View Post
    Are there any other synonyms for paTaak(kh,x)aa "fire-cracker" or for aatish-baazii "fire-works"?
    [Hindi] This one is an equivalent to P/U aatish-baazii, seemingly a calque: अग्निक्रीड़ा agnikriiRaa.

  9. #29
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    [Hindi] This one is an equivalent to P/U aatish-baazii, seemingly a calque: अग्निक्रीड़ा agnikriiRaa.
    Sounds extremely heavy to me. Did it ever take off!

  10. #30
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    AgnikriiRaa is extremely high falutin probably used by those who call a train "lohpathgaaminii" instead of "rel gaaDii"
    Last edited by Chhaatr; 18th March 2013 at 5:03 PM.

  11. #31
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Chhaatr View Post
    AgnikriiRaa is extremely high falutin probably used by those who call a train "lohpathgaaminii" instead of "rel gaaDii"
    What does falutin mean? I agree that it's uncommon and an awkward translation of aatish-baazii. kriiRaa just sounds like an odd word to me.

  12. #32
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine9 View Post
    What does falutin mean?
    My mistake should have written "high-falutin" or "highfalutin". It means pretentious.

    KriiRa = game/sport. Along with agnii it would literally mean "firegame or firesport".
    Last edited by Chhaatr; 19th March 2013 at 2:18 PM.

  13. #33
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Chhaatr View Post
    KriiRa = game/sport. Along with agnii it would literally mean "firegame or firesport".
    Exactly. Thank you for this one. You will find this word used in this thread which I started:

    Urdu, Hindi: sports club/centre

    If you can add something there, don't hesitate to do so.

  14. #34
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Chhaatr View Post
    KriiRa = game/sport. Along with agnii it would literally mean "firegame or firesport".
    I am glad you have provided an explanation for this word. I was begining to think the full word meant "fire-fly" (jugnuu)!

  15. #35
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine9 View Post
    Are there any other synonyms for paTaak(kh,x)aa "fire-cracker" or for aatish-baazii "fire-works"?
    It might be interesting to mention it in this thread that in one of the previous threads Faylasoof SaaHib shared his observations of the usage of this word by some Hindi broadcasters in the sense of ''terrorism'', ''a terrorist'' becoming ''aatish-baaz''!!!

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1217660
    Last edited by marrish; 20th March 2013 at 9:44 PM. Reason: add link

  16. #36
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    I'm not convinced of aatish-baaz and aatish-baazii being used in the sense of terrorist and terrorism. No Google result even shows this meaning. The broadcasters probably misspoke or misread the teleprompters.

  17. #37
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    Re: Hindi/Urdu: paTak(h)a vs. aatish baazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine9 View Post
    I'm not convinced of aatish-baaz and aatish-baazii being used in the sense of terrorist and terrorism. No Google result even shows this meaning. The broadcasters probably misspoke or misread the teleprompters.
    Possible. I also was unsuccessful in searching on the Net for this.

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