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Thread: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

  1. #1
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    Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    What is the rule for the genitive plural of feminine nouns ending in -я not-ия?
    Тётя--Тётей
    Неделя-Недель
    Дереня-Дерень
    Спасибо большое,
    Апа

  2. #2
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    Re: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    Quote Originally Posted by Apa2001 View Post
    What is the rule for the genitive plural of feminine nouns ending in -я not-ия?
    Тётя--Тётей тёть
    Неделя-Недель
    Деревня-Деревень
    Спасибо большое,
    Апа
    Looks like you already know the rule. But тётей is not plural genitive, it is singul\ar instrumental (Я доволен своей тётей).

  3. #3
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    Re: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    Hi,
    The Oxford Russian dictionary gives it as Тётей(Page 513). I believe you, as you are a native Russian. I am straining my non-Slavic brain trying to think of nouns ending only in -Я. Only names come to mind-Таня, Катя итд.
    Неделя-недель is the rule, correct?
    Thanks again.

  4. #4
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    Re: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    Неделя-недель is the rule, correct?
    Yes, it is. )
    The Oxford Russian dictionary gives it as Тётей(Page 513).
    Actually, the Russian Orthographic Dictionary says that the both variants (тёть and тётей) are possible (!), but for me, "тёть" sounds much more natural, here I agree with Maroseika.
    I am straining my non-Slavic brain trying to think of nouns ending only in -Я. Only names come to mind-Таня, Катя итд.
    Well, "пашня" (pl. gen. "пашен" (!)), "доля" (pl. gen. "долей"), "соня" (pl. gen. "сонь", common gender), "тихоня" (pl. gen. "тихонь", common gender) will do.
    Last edited by Awwal12; 20th February 2010 at 2:34 PM. Reason: tags added
    If you sometimes find my English incorrect or unnatural - you're really welcome to correct it! )

  5. #5
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    Re: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    Great! Thanks Anwal!

  6. #6
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    Re: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    Quote Originally Posted by Awwal12 View Post
    Yes, it is. )

    Actually, the Russian Orthographic Dictionary says that the both variants (тёть and тётей) are possible (!).
    Strange enough, but that's the fact.
    I decided to check some other words and found out, for example, that Pl. Gen. for тихони из тихоней and not тихонь! Even without variants, though I'd never say like that.
    The rule happened to be not as evident as seemed to me.
    Last edited by Maroseika; 20th February 2010 at 2:51 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    Well, one rule I has just deduced is that the noun ending on "(any consonant)+ня" (unstressed) would give "-ен" in plural genitive.
    пашня - пашен
    башня - башен
    басня - басен
    бойня - боен
    штольня - штолен
    колокольня - колоколен
    песня - песен
    etc.

    P.P.S.: the same ending (C+ня) when being stressed gives quite irregular forms: шестерён, шестерней, пятерней, мотней. And even when it is unstressed, there is an alternative pl. gen. form "тройней" ("троен" will do as well). That's a total mess...

    (P.S.: but looks like there are exceptions again: барышень, боярышень. Probably animated nouns won't do?..)

    As for "-ь or -ей" - this general question seems to be much more difficult...

    P.S.:
    I decided to check some other words and found out, for example, that Pl. Gen. for тихони из тихоней and not тихонь! Even without variants, though I'd never say like that.
    According to the Rus. Orth. Dictionary at yandex.ru, both "тихоней" and "тихонь" are possible. Anyway, I am surprised. o_O
    Last edited by Awwal12; 20th February 2010 at 3:53 PM.
    If you sometimes find my English incorrect or unnatural - you're really welcome to correct it! )

  8. #8
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    Re: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    Different forms can compete or co-exist in a language - it seems that тётей / тёть is an example of this.

    I learned Russian as an adult in the US and we were always taught only тётей (and дядей). If you go to google's ngrams tool (you'll need to google it, as a new member I can't post a link!) and type in тёть, тётей and choose the Russian corpus, it suggests that in printed materials at least, тёть was much more common until the mid-1920's, but тётей has been favored since then.

  9. #9
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    Re: Rule for feminine nouns in the genitive plural

    Quote Originally Posted by Awwal12 View Post
    Well, one rule I has just deduced is that the noun ending on "(any consonant)+ня" (unstressed) would give "-ен" in plural genitive.
    пашня - пашен
    башня - башен
    басня - басен
    бойня - боен
    штольня - штолен
    колокольня - колоколен
    песня - песен
    etc.

    P.P.S.: the same ending (C+ня) when being stressed gives quite irregular forms: шестерён, шестерней, пятерней, мотней. And even when it is unstressed, there is an alternative pl. gen. form "тройней" ("троен" will do as well). That's a total mess...

    (P.S.: but looks like there are exceptions again: барышень, боярышень. Probably animated nouns won't do?..)

    As for "-ь or -ей" - this general question seems to be much more difficult...
    As for "-ь" in such cases I was taught that there are only four exceptions: барышень, боярышень, кухонь, деревень, apart from them we don't put miachkiy znak when the noun in nominative singular ends with any consonant + ня (unstressed).

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