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French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais Translations of French or English words, phrases, expressions, and idioms. Discussion is in both English and French.
Traductions de mots, phrases et expressions / tournures idiomatiques en français et en anglais. Discussions portant sur le vocabulaire dans les deux langues.


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  #1  
Old 11th July 2006, 10:49 AM
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le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Bonjour à tous,

Puisque Steve M. a ouvert le débat, j'ai donc appris à dire "un coup de tête" (merci le football!), mais dans un registre plus familier, comment dirait-on "un coup de boule"?
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Old 11th July 2006, 11:47 AM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

header
est un coup de tete dans le domaine du football

i don't know if there is a translation for coup de boule...
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Old 11th July 2006, 11:49 AM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

donner un coup de boule : to head-butt someone (si on ne le sait pas tous,maintenant, on ne le saura jamais !
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Old 11th July 2006, 12:27 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

merci CarolineR, mais je voulais savoir s'il existait un terme un peu plus "slang" de la version " to headbutt".
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Old 11th July 2006, 12:36 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

How about "head slam to" as in "gave M. a head slam to the chest"?

That wa my first thought, but after searching stories about the incident in ENglish on Google, the only term I see used for this is head-butt. Usually a head slam would be when you slam someone's head into something, which is why you'd need to specify "to the chest" to make it understandable.
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Old 11th July 2006, 12:37 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Je ne connais pas d'équivalent argotique de "headbutt" (ou head-butt ou head butt).
En revanche, j'aimerais bien avoir l'avis des anglophones sur le mot head butt. N'est-ce pas un pléonasme ?
Définition (une parmi d'autres) du mot butt dans mon COD : a push with the head.
Donc si le mot butt à lui tout seul implique que le coup est porté avec la tête, le mot head est inutile ? Non ?

J'ai même vu, au hasard du Web (mais je n'arrive pas à le retrouver ), que certains anglophones critiquent l'emploi de head-butt pour désigner un coup de tête porté à la poitrine, au pretexte que le mot placé devant butt désigne en réalité la partie du corps touchée. D'après eux, un coup de tête porté à la poitrine devrait être appelé chest butt.What do you natives think? Is head butt a pleonasm? And should a butt in the chest be called a chest-butt?
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Old 11th July 2006, 12:49 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Actually your cd-rom is a little bit short with it's definition, there.

To butt has many uses:

To butt into someone (lit. and fig. to bump into someone/something physically, or to meet someone unexpectedly)
To butt in (To interupt a conversation)
To butt up to something (A ship butts up to the dock, for example)
To butt antlers (two animals)
To butt heads (lit. and fig. speaking, physically or to debate/disagree with or stand up to someone)

And I'm sure there are other uses. So a butt is not just a push with the head, but rather a sort of, what do we call it? Locution? It tells you both the action and is often followed by a preposition.

To simply say "He butted the guy" does not then give us enough information on its own. I see the logic behind the "chest butt" thing, but I don't find that very clear, because the "chest-butt" already exists, you can butt someone by using your chest (especially if you're as big as Zidane!!).

I think we must accept the head-butt as the right term, followed by "to the chest", because otherwise it sounds like he hit his head against the ther guy's head (which is, I believe, the classic "head-butt", like two rams butting antlers).

Whew. That was long !
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Old 11th July 2006, 12:54 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Quote:
Originally Posted by badgrammar

Whew. That was long !
But clear. Thanks badgrammar
Quote:
Actually your cd-rom is a little bit short with it's definition, there.
COD = Concise Oxford Dictionary. Sorry not to have been more precise.
I'm perfectly aware that there are several definitions, which is why I added "one among others".......in French
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Old 11th July 2006, 01:09 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Oh, sorry, I didn't read your post very carefully, CD indeed!

Hope it helped!
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Old 11th July 2006, 01:10 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

It's an interesting point, LV. It seems that the word has changed meaning over recent years. I can easily imagine that the "head" in "head-butt" was added to designate the target, but has since come to be perceived as the instrument.

This meaning of the noun "butt" isn't really used any more apart from in the expression "head-butt", since it mainly served to describe goats and deer and other fighting animals, an area that the modern world is so much less concerned about. I can imagine that in the past each one of the verbal expressions that badgrammar cites would have evoked images of aggressive goats, or of the use of the head at least. These nuances have been lost, meaning that "head-" is a now necessary part of the expression. A "chest-butt" would have to be expressed as a "head-butt to the chest", I think, as badgrammar says.

(Whew! That was long too. Sorry!)
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Old 11th July 2006, 11:38 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Thanks all. J'espère que je n'ai pas "braqué" ton fil, Geilis. Après moult recherches, je crois qu'il faut se rendre à l'évidence : il ne semble pas y avoir d'équivalent argotique pour head-butting.
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Old 11th July 2006, 11:44 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Quote:
il ne semble pas y avoir d'équivalent argotique pour head-butting.

'To nut s.o' en est un (pas aussi utilisé que headbutt), mais attention 'to nut' a aussi un sens sexuel (que je te laisserai rechercher...).


Quote:
The referee had his back to the cheating Figo when he nutted Van Bommel, so he can't ... from Figo. he merely moved his head in the other players direction. ...
boards.footymad.net/mboard/fmb.php?tno=558& fid=15&sty=2&act=1&mid=2136454967 - 43k - Cached - Similar pages


I got upset and he nutted me right on the bridge of my nose. www.pchapman.com/art6.htm -
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Old 11th July 2006, 11:55 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Methinks "head Butt" is redundant. What else would one butt with other than the head?
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Old 11th July 2006, 11:57 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Quote:
Originally Posted by zam


'To nut s.o' en est un (pas aussi utilisé que headbutt), mais attention 'to nut' a aussi un sens sexuel (que je te laisserai rechercher...).

Ah oui, j'avais bien vu que "nut" pouvait signifier head en argot. Donc j'ai reconstruit l'expression et j'ai essayé nut butt dans Urban Dic. mais ça voulait dire autre chose. Ensuite je suis parti sur nut tout seul. Remarque j'ai appris des tas de choses.
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Old 12th July 2006, 01:14 AM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

A real chestnut..
Je me demande si il n'y a pas en français un certain nuance de jeu(x) de mot(s) quelque part dans la phrase "coup de boule"
-> "avoir les boules" = to be pissed off (comme) -> coup de blues..
-> "la boule à zéro" dans le sens de "shaven head" (skinhead)
Was Zidane so "pissed off" qu'il a "perdu la boule" (lost his head/take leave of his senses) in using his "boule" (topper) to chest-nut Matarazzi ?
Let's face it, "coup de boule" - that's a chestnut to chew on..
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Old 12th July 2006, 01:46 AM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFrench
Je me demande si il n'y a pas en français un certain nuance de jeu(x) de mot(s) quelque part dans la phrase "coup de boule"
Non, l'expression coup de boule est courante depuis très longtemps. Le mot boule désigne la tête et on le retrouve dans des expressions comme
- perdre la boule
- la boule à zéro (que vous avez citée).

Quant à avoir les boules, je n'ai jamais très bien su de quelles boules il s'agissait. Pas de la tête, c'est sûr. A noter que, depuis un certain temps, avoir les boules a pris le sens (chez les jeunes, en tous cas) de avoir peur.
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Old 12th July 2006, 02:18 AM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Oui c'est vrai Jean-Michel. Pour moi, il s'agit des glandes, d'où ce geste de ce prendre le cou la gorge par une main, comme si l'on voulait les retenir. Non?
De quelles autres boules d'ailleurs?


Oh là là, les boules, le coup de boule du Zizou à la boule à zéro, qui a perdu la boule sur ce... Nous avions tous les boules qu'il se prenne un carton rouge, et il l'a eu...


Edit: la gorge plutôt oui.
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Old 12th July 2006, 02:38 AM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Quote:
Originally Posted by anangelaway
Oui c'est vrai Jean-Michel. Pour moi, il s'agit des glandes, d'où ce geste de ce prendre le cou la gorge par une main, comme si l'on voulait les retenir. Non?
De quelles autres boules d'ailleurs?
Bien vu, Angel, d'ailleurs on dit aussi "avoir les glandes". Ce site en parle mais n'en sait pas vraiment plus sur l'origine... (quelques hypothèses intéressantes, cependant ) Ici aussi.
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Old 12th July 2006, 07:28 PM
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Re: le 'coup de boule' de Zidane

Alors là! Bravo à tous. J'adore ce site et je suis toujours émerveillée et admirative de la qualité et de la richesse des interventions de chacun. J'ai eu plus de réponses que j'en espérais. Finalement, Zizou rend service à tout le monde!
Merci à tous.
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