Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Ite missa est

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Native language
    Japan
    Posts
    257

    Ite missa est

    Ite missa est.

    What is the subject of this sentence? Why is it feminine?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In the middle of the night
    Native language
    Spanish-ES
    Age
    39
    Posts
    3,828

    Re: Latin: What is the subject of "Ite missa est"?

    Hi,

    "ite" is the imperative of the second person (plural)
    "missa", I suppose it's a feminine word. However remember that in Latin words are declined ("inflect for number, gender, case, etc.")

    "[you] go, the mass is over"
    Quiero ser Califa en lugar del Califa - I want to be Caliph instead of the Caliph - Je veux devenir Calife à la place du Calife (Iznogoud)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Native language
    Japan
    Posts
    257

    Re: Latin: Ite missa est

    Thanks Talant.
    I think "missa" is a declined form of "mitto" (to send, dispatch) but I wonder why it is a feminine form? I think there must be a hidden or omitted subject, but what would be it?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In the middle of the night
    Native language
    Spanish-ES
    Age
    39
    Posts
    3,828

    Re: Latin: Ite missa est

    Yes, I've done a little research and found a little surprise. I though that "missa" was a word on it's own but you're right. It comes from "mitto".

    The "offering" is what is hidden

    "[you] go, the/your offering has been sent"
    Quiero ser Califa en lugar del Califa - I want to be Caliph instead of the Caliph - Je veux devenir Calife à la place du Calife (Iznogoud)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In the middle of the night
    Native language
    Spanish-ES
    Age
    39
    Posts
    3,828

    Re: Latin: Ite missa est

    Another probable origin of "missa" is explained in http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09790b.htm

    "The origin and first meaning of the word [missa], once much discussed, is not really doubtful. We may dismiss at once ...... . Nor is it the participle feminine of mittere, with a noun understood ("oblatio missa ad Deum", "congregatio missa", i.e., dimissa -- so Diez, "Etymol. Wörterbuch der roman. Sprachen", 212, and others). It is a substantive of a late form for missio. There are many parallels in medieval Latin, collecta, ingressa, confessa, accessa, ascensa -- all for forms in -io. It does not mean an offering (mittere, in the sense of handing over to God), but the dismissal of the people, as in the versicle: "Ite missa est" (Go, the dismissal is made)......"
    Quiero ser Califa en lugar del Califa - I want to be Caliph instead of the Caliph - Je veux devenir Calife à la place du Calife (Iznogoud)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Native language
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Posts
    28,006

    Re: Latin: Ite missa est

    Or better, "Go, you are dismissed".

    Or perhaps the idea was "Go, we are finished".

    Quote Originally Posted by toscairn View Post
    Ite missa est.

    What is the subject of this sentence? Why is it feminine?
    The sentence has two clauses, "Ite" and "missa est". The subject of "ite", which is implicit, is "vos" (plural "you"); the subject of "missa est" would seem to be "missa" ("the dismissal", "the conclusion").
    Last edited by Outsider; 26th September 2006 at 2:17 PM.
    Deuparth gwaith yw ei ddechrau.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Native language
    English
    Posts
    2

    Re: Latin: What is the subject of "Ite missa est"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talant View Post
    Hi,

    "ite" is the imperative of the second person (plural)
    "missa", I suppose it's a feminine word. However remember that in Latin words are declined ("inflect for number, gender, case, etc.")

    "[you] go, the mass is over"
    perhaps "missa" refers to the congregation as an imperative "noun", such as we refer to the Church, country or even seafaring vessels in the feminine sense.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Native language
    English
    Posts
    2

    Re: Ite missa est

    Perhaps "missa" refers to the congregation as an imperative "noun", such as we refer to the Church, country or even seafaring vessels in the feminine sense. Or perhaps it refers to the sended in the plural form. Can someone please help clarify if these meanings are valid?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Native language
    English - US
    Posts
    54,532

    Re: Ite missa est

    The explanation in post #5 seems authoritative: missa here is a medieval Latin variation of missio, a feminine noun meaning "dismissal." Thus missa est literally means "the dismissal is/ exists", but it could reasonably be translated as above: "the dismissal has been made".

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    川崎市、巴里 (黎)
    Native language
    仏(佛)法語צרפתית Clodoaldien
    Posts
    9,806

    Re: Ite missa est

    French renders this with "la messe est dite" (the mass is/has been said).
    "Les langages, à mon gré, sont comme les gouvernements, les plus parfaits sont ceux où il y a le moins d'arbitraire". (Voltaire)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Córdoba, Argentina
    Native language
    Argentina - Castellano
    Posts
    28

    Re: Ite missa est

    Muy interesante toda la discusión. Por eso es importante aclarar de qué época data la expresión. Si se tratara de latín clásico, la interpretación de missa = missio sería imposible, y lo más probable es que se tratara de un perfecto pasivo (missa como parte de la forma verbal compuesta). El femenino sólo podría explicarse por el contexto, que aquí desconocemos. Por ejemplo, epistula. Pero todo esto si se trata de un latín clásico. Si es efectivamente de época medieval, se resuelven muchos problemas.
    Nescit vox missa reverti

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Old Coulsdon, Surrey, England
    Native language
    British English
    Age
    65
    Posts
    2,346

    Re: Ite missa est

    Ite missa est comes from the very early days of Christianity.

    Originally, the sacred mysteries of the Eucharist were reserved for baptised Christians only. Catechumens (i.e. those who were receiving pre-baptismal instruction in Christianity) were allowed to attend the "Liturgy of the Word" (i.e. the readings from the scriptures) but not the "Liturgy of the Eucharist". After the readings, the priest would say to the these novices Ite missa est, meaning "Go, this is the dismissal".

    In time, the "Missa" came to be regarded as the beginning of the Eucharistic part of the service. Then the service in general became the "Missa" in Latin (and Italian, Spanish etc.), which is translated as "la Messe" in French and "the Mass" in English.

    In the modern Latin liturgy of the mass, Ite missa est is now the end of the whole service, informing the congregation that the mass is ended.
    Amo ergo Sum. My words speak for themselves. Between the lines you will find nothing but blank spaces.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Córdoba, Argentina
    Native language
    Argentina - Castellano
    Posts
    28

    Re: Ite missa est

    ¡Qué interesante lo que nos informas, Kevin! De hecho, en español la palabra para esta ceremonia es, precisamente, misa, pues en nuestra lengua no existen palabras con -ss-, simplificándose siempre en una sola -s- cuando en latín había dos.
    Muchas gracias, he aprendido muchísimo.
    Nescit vox missa reverti

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Native language
    English
    Posts
    1

    Re: Ite missa est

    350 A.D. THE BEGINNING OF MASS IN THE CHURCHES

    When the sermon ended those who were not allowed to remain for the Lords supper were to leave at the words of the deacon, “Ite Missa Est”--You are dismissed. This was a signal that they could depart without disturbing the services. It’s originally had nothing to so with the services which followed. Later the phrase was shortened to “the mass” and was applied to the Lord’s supper.
    An eminent authority, Polydore Virgil said, “When the mass is ended, the deacon turning to the people sayeth, “Ite Missa Est,” which word are borrowed from the rites of the pagans, and signifieth that the company may dismissed. It was used in the sacrifice of Isis, that when the observances were duly and fully performed and accomplished, then the minister of religion should give warning or a watchword what time they should lawfully depart. And of this springs our custom of singing “Ite Missa Est” for a certain signification that the full service was finished.” This practice was bond upon the apostate church until 394.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Old Coulsdon, Surrey, England
    Native language
    British English
    Age
    65
    Posts
    2,346

    Re: Ite missa est

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacheroftruth View Post
    350 A.D. THE BEGINNING OF MASS IN THE CHURCHES

    When the sermon ended those who were not allowed to remain for the Lords supper were to leave at the words of the deacon, “Ite Missa Est”--You are dismissed. This was a signal that they could depart without disturbing the services. It’s originally had nothing to so with the services which followed. Later the phrase was shortened to “the mass” and was applied to the Lord’s supper.
    An eminent authority, Polydore Virgil said, “When the mass is ended, the deacon turning to the people sayeth, “Ite Missa Est,” which word are borrowed from the rites of the pagans, and signifieth that the company may dismissed. It was used in the sacrifice of Isis, that when the observances were duly and fully performed and accomplished, then the minister of religion should give warning or a watchword what time they should lawfully depart. And of this springs our custom of singing “Ite Missa Est” for a certain signification that the full service was finished.” This practice was bond upon the apostate church until 394.
    Can you tell us the source of this passage,please?
    Last edited by Kevin Beach; 6th July 2009 at 5:24 PM.
    Amo ergo Sum. My words speak for themselves. Between the lines you will find nothing but blank spaces.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •