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Thread: Love and Pride

  1. #1
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    Love and Pride

    For a tattoo i'm thinking of getting in the future, I would like to have "Love and Pride" written in Latin.

    Love in the context for your friends, family and culture.
    Pride in the sense of who you are and your familial and cultural roots.

    Perhaps in translated with a poetic feel to the phrase? Unless the simplest translation would be the best, then that would work perfectly, too.

    Thank you so much in advance

  2. #2
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    Re: Love and Pride

    Hi! I'd say:

    AMOR ET SUPERBIA

    or

    AMOR SUPERBIAQUE

    Cheers!

  3. #3
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    Re: Love and Pride

    The problem is that superbia has a negative meaning in Latin (haughtiness, arrogance).
    Last edited by fdb; 7th August 2012 at 5:56 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Love and Pride

    Quote Originally Posted by fdb View Post
    The problem is that superbia has a negative meaning in Latin (haughtiness, arrogance).
    How about "dignitas" or "spiritus""?

  5. #5
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    Re: Love and Pride

    Dignitas is very good. Or pietas, in the sense "loyalty to one's family".

  6. #6
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    Re: Love and Pride

    Pietas is good.
    It does have the sense stated by fdb and it does not mean the same as Christian 'piety'.
    Latin pietas does have religious meaning, but for the Romans the religious sense of pietas was associated very much with family. Being polytheists, the Romans did not wrap all religious feeling up together in a single package, as we may tend to do.

    'amor pietasque' would link the two words together, thus tending to define amor in the sense of family loyalty.

  7. #7
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    Re: Love and Pride

    Quote Originally Posted by wandle View Post
    Pietas is good.
    It does have the sense stated by fdb and it does not mean the same as Christian 'piety'.
    Latin pietas does have religious meaning, but for the Romans the religious sense of pietas was associated very much with family. Being polytheists, the Romans did not wrap all religious feeling up together in a single package, as we may tend to do.

    'amor pietasque' would link the two words together, thus tending to define amor in the sense of family loyalty.


    IMHO, "love and pride" and "amor pietasque" evoke very different dispositions.
    Would "pious Aeneas" and "proud Aeneas" be the same person?

  8. #8
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    Re: Love and Pride

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiviscumque View Post
    Would "pious Aeneas" and "proud Aeneas" be the same person?
    Are you asking if those English expressions are equivalent?

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    Re: Love and Pride

    I feel uncomfortable with the translation "pride~pietas"; for instance, "Pride and prejudice"~ "Pietas praeiudiciumque"?? "Pietas" evokes (for me) an "affectio" that implies an "officium", ("officium pietatis"): Aeneas carrying his father, Lares and Penates, and so on. On the other hand, "pride" ("orgullo" in my Spanish) has no implied "officium", it is just the result of a positive self-evaluation.

    But perhaps I am wrong, since my English and my Latin are far from fluent.

  10. #10
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    Re: Love and Pride

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiviscumque View Post
    I feel uncomfortable with the translation "pride~pietas"; for instance, "Pride and prejudice"~ "Pietas praeiudiciumque"?? "Pietas" evokes (for me) an "affectio" that implies an "officium", ("officium pietatis"): Aeneas carrying his father, Lares and Penates, and so on. On the other hand, "pride" ("orgullo" in my Spanish) has no implied "officium", it is just the result of a positive self-evaluation. But perhaps I am wrong, since my English and my Latin are far from fluent.
    Even with modern languages, trying to translate word for word is a mistake. Similar-seeming words may have different meanings; phrases and sentences often need to be treated as a whole.

    When we try to translate into and out of classical Latin, this problem becomes harder, because we are dealing with a much wider culture gap, so that not only do the words differ, but so do their counterparts: the ideas to which the words are referring. We find that the concepts and values of the ancient and modern societies do not match each other: there is therefore in many cases no chance at all that the words will match. That is the problem we are dealing with here.

    kaizer21 in post 1 has asked for a translation of 'Love and Pride', with the following explanation:
    Love in the context for your friends, family and culture.
    Pride in the sense of who you are and your familial and cultural roots.
    Clearly the sense of family connections and the positive feelings and values derived from them are basically what he wants to express.

    fdb has pointed out that Latin superbia has the negative sense of haughtiness and arrogance. That is quite correct.
    This is so different from the idea of positive family feelings that it is impossible for superbia to be used in this case.
    Roman "pride" simply does not match what kaizer21 has in mind.

    We must therefore look for a different combination of terms. I suggested amor pietasque as explained above, but perhaps a better choice would be dignitas ac pietas. This brings together dignitas, which can mean 'esteem' or 'prestige', with the sense of family tradition involved in pietas.

    However, better still would be to use the adjective pius to qualify dignitas, as this will tend to limit its sense to that of family reputation or prestige. So my final offer is:

    pia dignitate, ablative case, to mean 'with the prestige or reputation of family tradition', implying that the bearer of this motto will act with those values in mind or as their representative.
    Last edited by wandle; 11th August 2012 at 2:11 PM.

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