View Poll Results: Do you believe in astrology?

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  • Yes, I do.

    12 17.65%
  • No, I don't.

    56 82.35%
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Thread: The power of the Planets

  1. #61
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    That's true as well, it was just, that site was based on statistics and the studies I looked at were scientific monitoring during month patterns, it seemed to have a little more cred. Ugh if only I could remember the name of the guy who did the study!

    I hate my memory! lol.

  2. #62
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Murphy View Post
    That's true as well, it was just, that site was based on statistics and the studies I looked at were scientific monitoring during month patterns, it seemed to have a little more cred. Ugh if only I could remember the name of the guy who did the study!

    I hate my memory! lol.
    I do know studies on astrology were done by Gauquelin (sp?) in the 1970s or 1980s...

    He claimed to have found an effect. AFAIK he's actually a Scientologist, which I offer for consideration...
    "I'm just a mouth on legs." Tegan Jovanka, Doctor Who.

  3. #63
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    There is a thread opened by myself about mother-in-laws...I've tried to find an answer why my mother and her daughter-in-law are getting along with each other so perfectly... The only rational answer is they have the same Zodiac, they are both Pisces...
    [ɒkinɛk humorɒ vɒn, mindɛnˤtud, ɒkinɛk niŋʧ, mindɛnrɛ ke.pɛʃ]

  4. #64
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    I do not believe in astrology, yet think it is beautiful, this is why it deserves reverance. I think that the most foolish thing to do is to blame the ancients for its invention; any organisation of our knowledge about the world needs a guiding idea, and the idea of beauty is a priori no worse than any other. In fact, it still governs our knowledge of the world, but on the more fine-grained level, in a more elaborate way, and together with two other ideas: that our world is homogenous, and that its physical motions can, in principle, be understood, that is, greatly simplified in explanation, all, with no exceptions. Now let us try to look at the world with the eyes of the ancients: when the only regularity that we see around is the motion of stars, it is very natural in the best sense of the word, and I dare say it is very scientific, to try to find out how the rest of the world might depend on it. The systems of astrology had methods, the only problem is that their methods do not work.

    I deeply reject the idea that astrology is about searching for a "higher power", a part of the world more respectful and influental than we are. I also deeply reject the idea that the religion is about it. Many people would easily interpret both in such a way, because of people's inner wish to be governed, but this does not show that the goal of either the religion or astrology is to look for the deity to blindly serve to. The first is about people, the second is about the world; the first is about what remains to be learned, the second is about what the mankind successfully began to learn. The second is outdated, the first is not. Apart from both being not exactly mundane concepts (as well as science is not, by the way), I see nothing in common between them.

    Still, I think that the whole of the universe is higher than we are, though I'd prefer not to think of it in terms of power or authority. Rather, I revere the universe's being so consistent, more consistent than we can ever be.
    Quote Originally Posted by argosdex View Post
    Those who do NOT belive in a higher being and who base their opinion on scientific fact will never be convinced either, that there is some old man in a white beard wearing a toga that's going to punish you if you are a bad boy.
    This is a good proof that the religion is not about that. The question is: what it is about? What we study when listening to the religious literature are, in fact, we ourselves. What we study when trying to understand the God by any other means, the most important of which is just living, are, in the end, we ourselves, too.The fair conclusion is that, since we read fiction or religious literature to know better ourselves and our life with other people, their goal is exactly that: learning.

    Putting aside barbaric interpretations (by the way, churches often seem to insist on them, which is a pity and shows that churches often tend to be about politics, not religion), the religion is about truth, freedom, and healthiness – not about lie, restrictions or mental illness; this is why it was coined. There is a lot of devilry in ourselves that we don't understand. Literature – religious, fiction, and scientific – helps us to know it, and it helps us to know the world. Fiction, religion, and science all serve the same goal.

  5. #65
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    This is a good proof that the religion is not about that. The question is: what it is about? What we study when listening to the religious literature are, in fact, we ourselves. What we study when trying to understand the God by any other means, the most important of which is just living, are, in the end, we ourselves, too.The fair conclusion is that, since we read fiction or religious literature to know better ourselves and our life with other people, their goal is exactly that: learning.
    I agree with your view on religion. Having tried to catch the glimpse of God in a few "major" religions I came to the conclusion, that in fact religious beliefs (which I consider something very far from any religious structures or organizations) are some sort of our own projection of what's deep inside our nature, what escapes our rational mind and what Jung would call archetypes.

    At times I have a feeling that to explore that area we need to take that "naive" believing point of view to get there, otherwise when we try to define or explain these inner drives and images in a strictly scientific way something gets lost on the way (a view somehow shared by archetypal psychology, I believe).
    I appreciate your corrections.

  6. #66
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsoman View Post
    I don't believe in astrology, but I do believe in the supernatural
    Still, to determine what is supernatural we need to decide what we consider natural.

  7. #67
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    I believe in astrology because it is a science that exists like biology, economics, sociology, etc.

    Corrigez-moi toutes mes erreurs s'il vous plaît, amis. Merci beaucoup!

  8. #68
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    I believe somewhat in Astrology but definitely not in those horoscopes they publish in newspapers or read on the radio.
    Life is not a dress rehearsal.

  9. #69
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    My scepticism about astrology is profound. I would be slightly more convinced if those propounding it could identify any of the planets or indeed any of the constellations on the ecliptic or indeed explain why the idea of the ecliptic was introduced.

  10. #70
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    The idea of ecliptic is actually very natural and important, since it's the basis of the solar calendar, you won't do well with agriculture without it. The idea that celestial cycles have influence on earthly events is very natural, too, because it is natural and in line with the reductionist thought to suggest that more regular events cause and shape less regular ones, and ancient people even had examples of how movements in the sky correspond to changes on the earth (take regular weather changes, for example). I don't share your scepticism about astrology, though, since it's not a scientific idea anymore.

  11. #71
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    What influences our planet directly, influences us indirectly.
    Life is so beautiful when we all participate!

  12. #72
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    I think learnerr misunderstood me. When I said I am sceptical I meant that I do not believe in astrology. For the ancients, even for modern navigators it is useful to be able to map the heavens (this is what the ecliptic is about). Very few astronomers either ancient or modern thought that heavenly bodies had any occult influence, but my point was/is that very few nowadays can look at the night sky and identify much more than the moon.

  13. #73
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    Re: The power of the Planets

    Sorry for misunderstanding. But now my question is, what the ecliptic plane has to do with navigation? When making reference to the stars, we can make use of at least these two planes: the plane of the horizon (which is the one in relation to which we make direct measurement, which is why it is interesting), and the equatorial plane (which makes rather small changes of its angular position with time, that is, it is approximately constant in relation to the stars and the planets, which is why it is interesting). The method of juxtaposition of these two planes depends solely on the coordinates of the place where the measurement is being done, the local time in this place, the coordinates of the place where the equatorial coordinates of the celestial object were defined, and the local time in this place at the time of the measurement in the distant place. That's all, it does not depend on the month and the day of the measurement, unlike the method of juxtaposition of the horizon plane and the ecliptic plane; so, the coordinates of the celestial objects in the equatorial coordinates look to be more convenient for use in navigation than the ecliptic coordinates. What's wrong?

    Next, the ecliptic plane shares with the equatorial plane the property of stability, it is even more stable in relation to the stars and the planets than the equatorial plane. Its advantage is that in it the Sun always belongs to the reference plane, and also that most planets are near it, too (with the exception for Pluto, which is not a planet anymore and which was not known until the XX century). So it appears to be a useful tool to describe Sun's motion around Earth, and thus useful for reckoning about calendars. Still, it looks that the invention of this notion had more effect on the history of people's illogical desire to know and organise their knowledge, rather than on the history of people's techniques for making useful things... I think, if an expert on astronomy and history could explain to us why the notion of ecliptic was probably invented and what impact it had on history of science, technology, culture and life, then it would be highly pertinent to this thread about astrology.

    Back to the poll, I think the question is somewhat incorrect. One can believe in astrology in many ways. As for me: do I believe that astrology allows to predict things? No. Do I believe that astrology is connected with something supernatural? No. Do I believe that astrology permits to describe people well? Partly; astrology may initiate necessary thought about the persons in question. Do I believe that astrology is beautiful in its design and fascinating in its history? Yes, I do. It's just my belief, since I do not have enough knowledge neither about it, nor about its history.
    Last edited by learnerr; 6th November 2013 at 10:52 PM.

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