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Thread: Glass

  1. #21
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    Re: Glass

    I see... interesting! Thanks!

  2. #22
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    Re: Glass

    Quote Originally Posted by rusita preciosa View Post
    window / window pane: окно /okno/ - the root –ok-/-otch- means “eye”
    Addition: «око» («oko») was the Russian for "eye" in the past, but now it is «глаз» (which is pronounced very much like "glass", by the way).

  3. #23
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    Re: Glass

    How interesting. Maybe 'glass' has to do with shining - and shining might be linked to eyes... Maybe...

  4. #24
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    Re: Glass

    According to Max Vasmer, the word "глаз" used to mean a little ball — and sometimes a little ball made out of glass, — which meaning is related to the meaning of a Polish cognate for a rock, a stone. The Russian word for a window does not have to have anything to do with glass — it may be just that houses are thought to look at things around them with their windows, a metaphor, sort of.
    Last edited by e2-e4 X; 20th November 2012 at 11:23 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Glass

    Quote Originally Posted by rusita preciosa View Post
    Russian:
    Is there another meaning (e.g. disorder)? In Russian бардак /bardak/ is a slang word for disorder, chaos; the etymological dictionary says it is a loanword from Turkic for “clay pot”.
    I don't know of such a meaning in any Turkic dialects. Although in old Turkic there is the verb "arta" meaning mulfuncion, breakdown, disorder. (and artaq meaning something which mulfunctions, is broken, is in disorder). That Russian word might be related to that.

    Today we use the word arıza (loaned from Arabic for some reason unknown to me) with the same meanings.
    Last edited by ancalimon; 21st November 2012 at 1:30 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Glass

    IMHO the slang meaning "brothel/mess/chaos" of the word бардак (bardak) in Russian (= "a glass" in Turkish) is influenced by the similarly sounding word бордель (bordeľ) with the same meaning. It is a common method that slang uses to create new slang words.

    BTW another Russian slang word for "mess/chaos" is кавардак (kavardak), also from Turkic (kavyrmak).
    Last edited by bibax; 21st November 2012 at 2:43 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Glass

    In Spanish:

    Glass: vaso (from Latin vasum)
    Vidrio (from Latin vitrum)
    Lente (from Latin lens)

    And the only expression I know in Spanish with 'glass' is ahogarse en un vaso de agua, which means to make a mountain out of a molehill or a tempest in a teapot.

    In Japanese:

    For some reason I don't know Japanese uses the English word グラス gurasu. I can't understand why, did never exist glasses in Japan? I tried to look up a proper Japanese word for glass and nothing came up. That applies to the meanings ''driking vessel'' and the thing a window is made of. When it comes to the thing you use to see better you say 眼鏡 megane (lit. eyeball + mirror)
    Username: Suzumiya. 所詮この世は弱肉強食。強ければ生き、弱ければ死ぬ。-志々雄真実

  8. #28
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    Re: Glass

    Hi 涼宮!
    According to Wikipedia, the Japanese has the kanji 硝子 for the glass (material). Do you know how to pronounce it? Maybe it was used in ancient Japanese before the English borrowing?

    And in Spanish vaso is the drinking cup, vidrio the material, and lente the spectacles, right?
    So in Spanish you don't dinstinguish lens and spectacles? In Portuguese spectacles are called óculos.
    "Ĉokolado". Do you know how to say "chócoleit" in "Espanis"?

  9. #29
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    Re: Glass

    Please note the discussion on "glasses" on the same forum:
    glasses

    I must say I only learnt "gafas" in Spanish from Spain but it has other names throughout Latin America.


  10. #30
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    Re: Glass

    Hi DearPrudence!
    Thanks for the link.
    Reading quickly that thread, it seems that anteojos are an arcaic term for glasses (spectacles) in Spanish, gafas is used in Spain as you said, and lentes is used in Rio de la Plata as 涼宮 said.
    So each one of you said a regional variety.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibax View Post
    IMHO the slang meaning "brothel/mess/chaos" of the word бардак (bardak) in Russian
    Interesting. In Italian baldracca means slut, I don't know if it's related.
    But in Italian there is casino /ka'sino/ (lit. little home) which means both "brothel" and "mess/chaos"; not to be confused with casinò /kazi'nɔ/ which is the gambling casino.
    Last edited by Youngfun; 21st November 2012 at 7:31 PM. Reason: don't -> don't know and brother-> brothel
    "Ĉokolado". Do you know how to say "chócoleit" in "Espanis"?

  11. #31
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    Re: Glass

    Quote Originally Posted by bibax View Post
    IMHO the slang meaning "brothel/mess/chaos" of the word бардак (bardak) in Russian (= "a glass" in Turkish) is influenced by the similarly sounding word бордель (bordeľ) with the same meaning. It is a common method that slang uses to create new slang words.
    There is no "brothel" meaning in the word «бардак», as far as I know. * The word rather refers to a misorganised state of things or to a disorganised institution (for example, a state institution). It is very similar to «кавардак», except that the former looks more large-scale and more concerned of politics and other such 'dull' questions, it makes think of a disorder which concerns the society as a whole, and the latter is more related to a particular person or a family.

    Besides, I do not quite understand what do you mean by 'slang' here. I would say that both words are 'colloquial'.

    * It turned out that I'm just too young or something to know this word in its primary meaning. Yes, the primary meaning is "brothel", but hardly anyone uses it this way nowadays. It is a colloquial word of general use, not slang.
    Last edited by e2-e4 X; 22nd November 2012 at 12:55 AM.

  12. #32
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    Re: Glass

    Quote Originally Posted by Youngfun View Post
    Hi 涼宮!
    According to Wikipedia, the Japanese has the kanji 硝子 for the glass (material). Do you know how to pronounce it? Maybe it was used in ancient Japanese before the English borrowing?

    I knew that kanji but I simply never see it in use. It's read as グラス but according to the dictionary it can be read as しょうし. I wonder in what kind of context that kanji would be used. Still, I don't get why they say グラス and ジュース, such borrowings are absurd to me being JP an agglutinative language.

    And in Spanish vaso is the drinking cup, vidrio the material, and lente the spectacles, right?
    So in Spanish you don't dinstinguish lens and spectacles? In Portuguese spectacles are called óculos.

    And nope, lens and spectacles are the same thing, be it gafas, anteojos o lentes. And as you said, anteojos is old-fashioned, I only see that word used in dubs, video games and books because it seems to be the choice considered 'neutral' for all speakers to understand.
    Username: Suzumiya. 所詮この世は弱肉強食。強ければ生き、弱ければ死ぬ。-志々雄真実

  13. #33
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    Re: Glass

    Quote Originally Posted by DearPrudence View Post
    Please note the discussion on "glasses" on the same forum:
    glasses.
    Interesting hint, had not thought of glasses at first, I must admit. I had been thinking of metaphorical/ metonymical meanings of glass (material).

    Just by the way: we associate glass with clarity and with 'hardness', as in 'glashard', 'glashelder' (clear as glass).


    Quote Originally Posted by 涼宮 View Post

    In Japanese:

    For some reason I don't know Japanese uses the English word グラス gurasu. I can't understand why, did never exist glasses in Japan? I tried to look up a proper Japanese word for glass and nothing came up. That applies to the meanings ''driking vessel'' and the thing a window is made of. When it comes to the thing you use to see better you say 眼鏡 megane (lit. eyeball + mirror)
    Interesting cultural question: is 'window' a universal concept as such ? Glass (cup) is not, cup is, I think...
    Last edited by ThomasK; 22nd November 2012 at 9:45 AM.

  14. #34
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    Re: Glass

    @涼宮:
    It seems that 硝子 has two readings: an English reading (gurasu), while the other one shoushi sounds like a Chinese reading, probably the original pronunciation of the two kanjis. (In Chinese it would xiao zi)
    You shouldn't be surprised if Japanese uses a loanword for "glass", they even say appu (from up)=to raise, supichi=speech, purasu=plus, akusento=accent, supootsu=sports, and a long long list.
    眼鏡 is definitely a loanword from Chinese.
    Last edited by Youngfun; 22nd November 2012 at 5:20 PM.
    "Ĉokolado". Do you know how to say "chócoleit" in "Espanis"?

  15. #35
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    Re: Glass

    I happened to read about 'appuru', apple. But I still wonder if the word 'window' is original in Chinese or Japanese, with or without glass...
    Last edited by ThomasK; 22nd November 2012 at 8:19 PM.

  16. #36
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    Re: Glass

    I don't know for Japanese.
    Chinese has very few loanwords, windows is 窗户, while glass is 玻璃. Or glass window is 玻璃窗.
    "Ĉokolado". Do you know how to say "chócoleit" in "Espanis"?

  17. #37
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    Re: Glass

    Did you mean that all three are loanwords? Could you comment on those ideogrammes (if it makes sense to do so)?

  18. #38
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    Re: Glass

    Sorry, I didn't express myself well.
    I mean that Chinese has very few loanwords, and would never use loanwords for these common things, but native words.

    According Wikipedia, 玻璃 has been the word for "glass" (the material) in China since thousands of years.

    窗 is the basic word for "window".
    Modern Chinese tends to avoid monosyllabic (i.e. only 1 ideogram) words, so we usually "enrich" it, we make compounds like 窗户, which consists of window+door, actually with no additional meaning: it still means "window". Other compounds meaning window are 窗口、窗门。

    玻璃窗 is just 玻璃 + 窗 (glass + window). Here we only use the basic word for window, we don't need anymore to "enrich" it, because of the "glass" before.
    Of course you will be still understood if you say 玻璃窗户, but that would sound redundant.

    On the other hand, Japanese has A LOT of loanwords.
    "Ĉokolado". Do you know how to say "chócoleit" in "Espanis"?

  19. #39
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    Re: Glass

    Swedish is very much like Dutch and English regarding this matter. That is, there is little variation between the words.

    Material - glas [glɒːs]
    Drinking tool - (ett) glas [glɒːs]
    Pane - (glas)ruta ['glɒːsrʉːta]
    Visual tool - (ett par) glasögon ['glɒːsøːgɔn]*

    *ögon is the plural of öga - eye.
    Linguistics is always descriptive. Never prescriptive.

  20. #40
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    Re: Glass

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasK View Post
    Interesting cultural question: is 'window' a universal concept as such ? Glass (cup) is not, cup is, I think...
    Window in Japanese is 窓 mado, which is not a borrowing from English, fortunately. The Japanese language is weird, in my opinion, when it comes to taking loanwords. Regarding technology and stuff like that, there are many words created by their roots and thus they don't use loanwords, but with some other very common words such as 'coffe', 'juice', 'glass' they use the English words, why? who knows. But there are also many native equivalents to such borrowings which are sometimes preferred over loanwords. For instance, the usual word for 'rape' is taken from English, レイプ reipu, the proper Japanese word for that is 強姦 goukan, but it's considered formal and less strong a word, therefore it doesn't convey the seriousness of 'rape', in a newspaper, for instance.

    As for ''appuru', I've always seen the native word りんご ringo, perhaps that ''appuru'' refers to the company and not the fruit.
    Username: Suzumiya. 所詮この世は弱肉強食。強ければ生き、弱ければ死ぬ。-志々雄真実

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