Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: objectify

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Native language
    English - US, Korean
    Posts
    278

    objectify

    What is the closest equivalent to "objectify" (as in seeing a woman as an object of sexual desire/tool of sexual gratification) in Hebrew?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Native language
    Hebrew
    Age
    21
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: objectify

    להחפיץ
    מלשון חפץ.
    All the seats are taken in the parliament of fools!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Native language
    Israel - Hebrew
    Posts
    702

    Re: objectify

    להחפיץ from the root ח.פ.ץ with the הפעיל binyan.

    edit: damn, too late

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Native language
    Hebrew
    Posts
    423

    Re: objectify

    The Hebrew Academy came up in 2005 with the word הַחְפָּצָה as an eqivalent term for objectivation (comes from חֵפֶץ, which is the Hebrew word for object), thus to objectify would be translated as לְהַחְפִּיץ. Nevertheless, this term is not widely accepted. I think I've also heard חִפְצוּן (v. לְחַפְצֵן) as an alternative for objectivation. Have in mind that these neologisms might sound awkward, so, as usual, it's better to post a full sentence, and according to context we will be able to help you better.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Native language
    English - US, Korean
    Posts
    278

    Re: objectify

    "Objectify/objectification" in English is in the vast majority of cases used in that sense, viewing/portraying women as sexual objects.
    An example of "objectify": "Many television shows and works of fiction objectify female characters by making them sexually attractive, ironically at the same time that they strengthen them."
    Last edited by trigel; 6th December 2012 at 11:44 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Native language
    Hebrew
    Posts
    423

    Re: objectify

    I am in favor of "pure" Hebrew terms, so I would use לְהַחְפִּיץ, but if you find it peculiar you can use הפך [מישהו] לאובייקט )מיני( or הציג [מישהו] כאובייקט )מיני(, etc., since the phrase אובייקט מיני is quite common.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Native language
    Hebrew
    Posts
    2,781

    Re: objectify

    החפצה exists, yet be careful when using it. Sounds unnatural, as an attempt to Englishize Hebrew (or follow extreme feminist views, or enlist pseudo-intellectual terminology, and alike). Also, many Hebrew speakers are likely to say hakhfatza instead of hakhpatza, which makes it even more synthetic.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Native language
    English - London
    Posts
    1,296

    Re: objectify

    Quote Originally Posted by origumi View Post
    החפצה exists, yet be careful when using it. Sounds unnatural, as an attempt to Englishize Hebrew (or follow extreme feminist views, or enlist pseudo-intellectual terminology, and alike). Also, many Hebrew speakers are likely to say hakhfatza instead of hakhpatza, which makes it even more synthetic.
    Just out of curiosity, why do you say that the use of החפצה is English, when the term is invented from a Hebrew root?
    Also, why would people say hakhfatza? That sounds very strange to me.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Native language
    English - US, Korean
    Posts
    278

    Re: objectify

    The term is essentially a calque of what was originally English (object.ific.ation: ח.פ.צ+hif'il+gerund) and represents a concept that is unfamiliar/not used in Hebrew. And hif'il is not a very productive binyan in the first place in contemporary Hebrew; the vast majority of new verbs are piel and hitpael. So when you use it it might come across as forcing Hebrew to derive English concepts.

    I'm not sure but I guess the vowel on ח is originally supposed to be a "xataf" vowel, which lenites the following פ into f. Most speakers don't pronounce the xataf vowels on xet, yielding "haxfatza". If the first radical was kaf then haxpatza would be correct.
    Or a bit more uncharitably the Hebrew speakers in question just take the root x.f.tz from "xofetz".
    Last edited by trigel; 9th December 2012 at 2:39 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New York
    Native language
    French - France
    Posts
    775

    Re: objectify

    Conversely, you have examples of xataf which does not lenite the following consonant, which I find weird : מהפכה mahapekha.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    ישראל
    Native language
    עברית
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,235

    Re: objectify

    When a new verb is derived from an existing noun with בכ"פ rafot, these letters sometimes do not become degushot in some (all?) of the conjugations of the new verb, going against the rules of the binyan​ (apparently to preserve the "original" sound of בכ"פ of the noun).

    Examples:
    כּוכֿב > לְכּכֿב, כּיכֿב (binyan pi'el)
    חבֿר > להתחבֿר (to befriend, probably to distinguish it from להתחבּר which means "to become joined/connected")
    חפֿץ > החפֿצה

    To my best knowledge, this phenomenon is relatively new (recent decades?) and considered colloquial and non-standard Hebrew. The "correct" forms are לְכֿכּב, כּיכּב, להתחבּר, החפּצה.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Native language
    Hebrew
    Posts
    423

    Re: objectify

    Quote Originally Posted by hadronic View Post
    Conversely, you have examples of xataf which does not lenite the following consonant, which I find weird : מהפכה mahapekha.
    That is not quite the case. Sometimes, for a reason I haven't figured out yet, the letters: ה, ח, ע do tolerate schwa nach. This is the case with מַהְפֵּכָה (but נֶהֱפַך) and מַעְבָּרָה (but מַעֲבָר) and מַעֲתָּק (but הֶעֱתִיק).

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New York
    Native language
    French - France
    Posts
    775

    Re: objectify

    But do you pronounce maapekha or mapekha ​? (Provided that you talk the h-dropping dialect)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Native language
    Hebrew
    Age
    21
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: objectify

    mahapecha is what we say
    All the seats are taken in the parliament of fools!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Native language
    He
    Posts
    99

    Re: objectify

    This also happens with "old" nouns and verbs.
    One example that comes to mind is "תֶּפֶר > הוא תָּפַר" where the פ pronounced as rafah in virtually all derrived words from this stem even when it's explicitly פ degusha (נִתְפַּר).

    I assume that people use the pronunciation that they remember from the more popular words derrived from the stem and not as it supposed to be by the rules.
    This can also be seen in the systematic mispronunciation of prefixes (אותיות השמוש) like בכל"ם when proper pronunciation occurs only at some frequently occuring forms such as "בַּבַּיִת" but more rare ones such as "בְּבֵיתִי" will be commonly mispronounced as "בְּבְּיתִי" (and even more commonly will be replaced by "בבית שלי").

    I guess this is the result of the gradual loss of alophony in the בכ"פ pairs.

    BTW mahapecha will be "maapecha" with h-dropping

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New York
    Native language
    French - France
    Posts
    775

    Re: objectify

    I went across another similar phenomenon : מרבד in the meaning of carpet, is pronounced marvad with soft b.
    The only instances I knew of soft letters after shva nakh, was construct plural of segholate nouns ( מלכי malkhei) and the CaCCan pattern (חסכן khaskhan).

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Native language
    English - US, Korean
    Posts
    278

    Re: objectify

    Quote Originally Posted by hadronic View Post
    I went across another similar phenomenon : מרבד in the meaning of carpet, is pronounced marvad with soft b.
    The only instances I knew of soft letters after shva nakh, was construct plural of segholate nouns ( מלכי malkhei) and the CaCCan pattern (חסכן khaskhan).
    Shva meraxef, which is vocal shva following a "short" vowel, unlike shva na` which follows a long vowel. Shva na` is a strict subset of vocal shva.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New York
    Native language
    French - France
    Posts
    775

    Re: objectify

    This is what I was refering to. But here is a very unique instance of it. Do you have other examples (which are not already accounted for, like malkhei, malkhut, khaskhan..) ?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •