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Thread: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

  1. #1
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    na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    witam wszystkich!

    Can anzone help with the meaning of these lines which have confused...

    na wiosce która dobrze znamy zagościł błogi spokój zapanował
    do tego stopnia że...

    The best i can do so far is
    "at the village which we know well ..... blissful calmness reigns
    ......"

    Is stopnia related to stopnieć? which is same as topnieć meaning to melt, ebb away

    Thanks. That's a great help
    Phil.
    Last edited by LeTasmanien; 19th December 2012 at 9:07 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    No, it's the genitive form of the noun stopień.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by Szkot View Post
    No, it's the genitive form of the noun stopień.
    Thanks.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Hi, LeTasmanian. It is very bad Polish -- not "na wiosce", but we (some say w -- including myself) wiosce. Also the registers are mixed. The first part is in very colloquial Polish, whereas "do tego stopnia" is quite formal. The sentence sounds really awkward.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Thanks LilianaB.
    It's from an Asterix in Britain comic book so I suppose it would be very dubious Polish grammar.
    Phil.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    The only part that sticks out as colloquial is 'na wiosce'.
    It looks as though someone haven't finished writing it, or it's a draft.
    There are two words that mean effectively the same thing, and the author couldn't decide between them:

    na wiosce która dobrze znamy zagościł (zapanował) błogi spokój zapanował (it's out of place)
    At the village we know very well, a blissfull serenity started to reign

    do tego stopnia że...
    to such an extent that...

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Yes, I think your version, Dreamlike, is much better, and maybe here, in the stylized sentence, the "na" can somehow fit, but not in the previous sentence. In my opinion "do tego stopnia", is quite literary and formal language, so it would be better to skip it or replace with something else.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    It's not my version, Liliana -- unless you're referring to my English translation. I just took the fragment as it stands from the first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by LeTasmanien View Post

    na wiosce która dobrze znamy zagościł błogi spokój zapanował
    do tego stopnia że...
    and wanted to point to the fact that 'zapanował' could be used instead of 'zagościł', but it could not be not at the end of sentence -- which led me to believe it's just a draft version. Having read post #5, I know it's just a poorly written story, that has not been proofread.
    Last edited by dreamlike; 19th December 2012 at 12:26 PM.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Thanks very much dreamlike, LilianaB and Szcot for your replies.
    I am just a beginner in the Polish language. The material I am working through currently is an archaic comic book vintage 1960, originally written in French before being translated to Polish and is full of slang and wordplays.
    It really is totally unfair to throw it at you!
    Dreamlike, the original story was very cleverly written but I can't make any comment about the translation into Polish!
    It may have been hurried and/or unprofessional.
    I am deeply impressed with the level of critical analysis and comment here.
    Obviously I need to choose more serious and substantial material for you guys to work on!
    Thanks again
    Phil.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlike View Post
    It's not my version, Liliana -- unless you're referring to my English translation. I just took the fragment as it stands from the first post:



    and wanted to point to the fact that 'zapanował' could be used instead of 'zagościł', but it could not be not at the end of sentence -- which led me to believe it's just a draft version. Having read post #5, I know it's just a poorly written story, that has not been proofread.
    As soon as you take some words out from a piece of writing it becomes your version.(it may also become plagiarism, but this is not what I meant here). I was referring only to the Polish text. With your changes, it sounds Ok.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    I know that you have to make do with what you have, but the Polish translation doesn't even appear to have been proofread, so I'd advise against using it to learn Polish.
    We're looking forward to helping you with a more substantial material. You took on quite a challange... I mean studying Polish.

    Quote Originally Posted by LilianaB View Post
    As soon as you take some words out from a piece of writing it becomes your version.(it may also become plagiarism, but this is not what I meant here). I was referring only to the Polish text. With your changes, it sounds Ok.
    It was readily apparent that someone forgot to remove the word 'zapanował'.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by LeTasmanien View Post
    witam wszystkich!

    Can anzone help with the meaning of these lines which have confused...

    na wiosce która dobrze znamy zagościł błogi spokój zapanował
    do tego stopnia że...
    [...]
    I think the sentence makes sense, and is correct (though, adding correct puctuation wouldn't hurt). It is, of course, incomplete. It may well render the language used in the comic book.
    Please correct my errors! Thanks.
    Corrigez-moi, s'il vous plaît! Merci.
    Пoжaлуйcтa, иcпpaвьтe мoи oшибки! Бoльшoe cпaсибo.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Do you consider na wiosce standrd Polish? Shouldn't it be w wiosce? Why do you think an addition of a totally redundant word (nothing more than a repetition) would be correct?

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by LilianaB View Post
    Do you consider na wiosce standrd Polish? Shouldn't it be w wiosce?
    They might have used 'na wiosce' for effect, but I doubt it, given the overall quality of the translation.
    'W wiosce' is a normal and standard way of saying it, 'na wiosce' is extremely informal and colloquial in tone.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by LilianaB View Post
    Do you consider na wiosce standrd Polish? Shouldn't it be w wiosce? Why do you think an addition of a totally redundant word (nothing more than a repetition) would be correct?
    Before I can address the questions, I need to specify some things:
    What do you mean by standard Polish?

    @ LeTasmanien: Could you please provide a scan of the page where the text appears? If that is not possible Could you please describe the picture with which the text is accompanied and a sentence before and after the one you provided? Have you got access to the source text by any chance?

    I am asking for all this, because having read some stories by Goscinny in Polish, I know that the langugage is very often stylised.
    Please correct my errors! Thanks.
    Corrigez-moi, s'il vous plaît! Merci.
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas1 View Post
    Before I can address the questions, I need to specify some things:
    What do you mean by standard Polish?
    Obviously, I'm not Liliana, but you posed a question that can be answered by virtually anyone. Standard Polish is one spoken by educated people, devoid of regional influences, using constructions and vocabulary which are universally considered 'correct', which 'na wiosce' is not...

    Of course, that alone doesn't mean that I would cross it out, it might be perfect for a stylized piece of writing. I don't think there is a governing body of Polish languge, not that I know of, at least, but were you to ask the PWN experts what they make of 'na wiosce', they would sure write it off as a highly colloquial, non-standard expression, so in this respect, it's not standard Polish.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas1 View Post
    Before I can address the questions, I need to specify some things:
    What do you mean by standard Polish?

    @ LeTasmanien: Could you please provide a scan of the page where the text appears? If that is not possible Could you please describe the picture with which the text is accompanied and a sentence before and after the one you provided? Have you got access to the source text by any chance?

    I am asking for all this, because having read some stories by Goscinny in Polish, I know that the langugage is very often stylised.

    Standard Polish -- the Polish used in prestigious newspapers, magazines, taught in schools, used in academic writing. The kind required to pass any language exams.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    i'd even say that na wiosce is not only colloquial but belongs to slang… i see some similarity to na mieście (cf. w mieście) which is less objectable (only colloquial) in my opinion but this doesn't seem to be literary polish (standard polish taught in schools).
    proszę o poprawianie błędów w moich wypowiedziach / please correct any mistakes in my utterances

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    OK, thank you all.

    Then, in my opinion, it's not fair to judge this text against the rules of standard Polish. It's a bit like doing the same to a góral. I can't say for 100% that the comic book in question has a stylised language, hence my request to the original poster, but judging from what I've read and watched (e.g. Przygody Mikołajka, Asterix i Obelix: Misja Kleopatra), and the excerpt provided, it is highly probable. These texts are meant to imitate the colloquial Polish represented by certain social strata (this is also present in the French version of Le Petit Nicolas, by the way). Very often, you can find there a plethora of different kinds of Polish adapted to the person and/or circumstances at hand.

    As to the sentence itself:
    na wiosce która dobrze znamy zagościł błogi spokój zapanował
    do tego stopnia że...
    I'd write it with different punctuation: Na wiosce, którą dobrze znamy, zagościł błogi spokój, zapanował do tego stopnia że...
    The missing part could be included in the following text or by some other means like a hilarious picture.

    EDIT: Dreamlike, there is such a body, Rada Języka Polskiego has been functioning since 1996.
    Please correct my errors! Thanks.
    Corrigez-moi, s'il vous plaît! Merci.
    Пoжaлуйcтa, иcпpaвьтe мoи oшибки! Бoльшoe cпaсибo.

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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Thomas, I see your point, but to me the only, say, standard (as I understand it) preposition we would here is 'w wiosce' rather than 'na wiosce', the former being extremely colloquial and therefore fit for the purpose of stylizing the text - indeed, that author might have very well written 'na wiosce' on purpose. Frankly, I see no other explanation.

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