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Thread: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

  1. #21
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Heh, that's curious! I would never say "w wiosce", it sounds bizarre to me. I agree ,though, that "na wiosce" has a slightly informal ring to it. What would I use in a formal context? I think that'd be "na wsi".

  2. #22
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    I think it should really be we wiosce, according to grammatical rules, but I would say w and many people do the same -- I have noticed, but we is probably the most correct form. According to phonetic rules e is required before w, when we use the w preposition.

  3. #23
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Not really Liliana. We say, for instance, w Wiedniu, not 'we'. Whether e is required or not depends on the word which we put after the preposition and certainly e is not required before w.

  4. #24
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by LilianaB View Post
    I think it should really be we wiosce, according to grammatical rules, but I would say w and many people do the same -- I have noticed, but we is probably the most correct form. According to phonetic rules e is required before w, when we use the w preposition.
    This is not true. We is used before a word that begins with a consonent cluster, such as wrz or czw. Let's not confuse people.

  5. #25
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by R.O View Post
    Heh, that's curious! I would never say "w wiosce", it sounds bizarre to me.
    Let us be reasonable. Just google 'w wiosce' and see for yourself how many results it yields. There are films, newspaper headlines, books and whatnot that have 'w wiosce' in them.

    W wiosce mieszkało trzydzieści rodzin chłopskich, a nad nimi panował… straszny, bezlitosny głód. (E. Orzeszkowa: Obrazek z lat głodowych)
    Last edited by dreamlike; 31st December 2012 at 8:47 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlike View Post
    Let us be serious. Just google 'w wiosce' and see for yourself how many results it yields. There are films, newspaper headlines, books and whatnot that have 'w wiosce' in them.

    W wiosce mieszkało trzydzieści rodzin chłopskich, a nad nimi panował… straszny, bezlitosny głód. (E. Orzeszkowa: Obrazek z lat głodowych)
    Why would you think I wasn't being serious? Do you expect me - in the light of your post - to change my perception of this expression?

  7. #27
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by R.O View Post
    Why would you think I wasn't being serious? Do you expect me - in the light of your post - to change my perception of this expression?
    My post has been tampered with, R.O., I've written 'let us be reasonable', not 'serious'. I see no reason to dismiss 'w wiosce' as sounding bizarre, and find it unreasonable. I had no doubts whatsoever that you were being serious.

    I don't expect you to do anything, you can, of course, make what you will of this phrase, but it's a perfectly fine wording, that has numerous instances in the corpus of the Polish language, which means it's used a lot in press and books

    I can't see how this could sound bizzare to anyone, but if it does to you, then so be it, what can I do:

    Polscy sportowcy zadomowili się w wiosce olimpijskiej.
    Last edited by dreamlike; 1st January 2013 at 5:28 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by NotNow View Post
    This is not true. We is used before a word that begins with a consonent cluster, such as wrz or czw. Let's not confuse people.
    Yes, you might be right. I thought about it, actually. We wtorek, we czwartek (although many people say w czwartek). We wsi było zimno. (just as an example). W wiosce (because w here is followed by a vowel). Na wsi is correct, whereas w wiosce is usually used in standard Polish, instead of na wiosce. I think it is just a conventional use, no other explanation.

  9. #29
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlike View Post
    My post has been tampered with, R.O., I've written 'let us be reasonable', not 'serious'. I see no reason to dismiss 'w wiosce' as sounding bizarre, and find it unreasonable. I had no doubts whatsoever that you were being serious.
    I first read your post right after you wrote it (only didn't have time to reply at the time); I could swear it was 'serious'...

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlike View Post
    I don't expect you to do anything, you can, of course, make what you will of this phrase, but it's a perfectly fine wording, that has numerous instances in the corpus of the Polish language, which means it's used a lot in press and books
    Where did I ever state otherwise? I only said it sounded bizarre to me. And it does. I'm sure there are many more expressions which sound odd to my ears even though they do appear in the language.

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlike View Post

    Polscy sportowcy zadomowili się w wiosce olimpijskiej.
    Strangely enough, this sentence sounds better to me with 'w' than 'we'. I think it depends on the context.

  10. #30
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by R.O View Post
    I first read your post right after you wrote it (only didn't have time to reply at the time); I could swear it was 'serious'...
    No, it was 'reasonable' all along. You must have been seeing things! Never mind that, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by R.O View Post
    Where did I ever state otherwise? I only said it sounded bizarre to me. And it does. I'm sure there are many more expressions which sound odd to my ears even though they do appear in the language.
    Fair enough. I thought you were trying to infer that there's something wrong 'w wiosce'.

    Strangely enough, this sentence sounds better to me with 'w' than 'we'. I think it depends on the context.
    'We' would be wrong here, since, as NotNow has already noted, 'wioska' does not begin with a consonant cluster.
    Last edited by dreamlike; 1st January 2013 at 8:38 PM. Reason: typo

  11. #31
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    So, to sum up:

    we Wrocławiu but: w Warszawie
    we Fromborku
    but: w Falenicy
    They are of course exceptions like we Lwowie (though: w Lwówku), we mnie, we mgle and many others.
    The same is for "z / ze":

    ze Stanów but z Sanoka
    ze Śremu but z Sieniawy
    ze Szczecina
    but z Szanghaju
    ze Zgierza but z Zakopanego,

    There are some exceptions like ze Lwowa, ze łzami, ze mnie, ze mną, ze sobą, although z sobą is also used.

    However, in many Polish dialects only we is used, that's why you can hear *we wodzie ze sokiem*, *we środę* and so on.
    Last edited by marco_2; 2nd January 2013 at 12:28 PM.

  12. #32
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    P.S. There are of course much more exceptions and fixed phrases I didn't mention, e.g. we say Mam to we krwi, but W krwi pacjenta wykryto śladowe ilości substancji trującej. Some of them you should learn by heart.

  13. #33
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Quote Originally Posted by marco_2 View Post
    P.S. There are of course much more exceptions and fixed phrases I didn't mention, e.g. we say Mam to we krwi, but W krwi pacjenta wykryto śladowe ilości substancji trującej. Some of them you should learn by heart.
    Good point

  14. #34
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    Re: na wiosce która dobrze znamy

    Interesting, I'd use 'we krwi pacjenta'.
    Also, the following wording comes to mind: Badanie kierowcy wykryło X promili alkoholu we krwi.
    I think I'd use 'w' in a different way: To narzekanie weszło mu w krew, ciągle użala się nad swoim losem.
    Something interesting:
    we forma przyimka: w, używana w połączeniu z wyrazami zaczynającymi się od spółgłoski w lub f, po której następuje inna spółgłoska oraz zwyczajowo w połączeniu z wyrazami zaczynającymi się od dwóch innych spółgłosek; regionalnie (na południu Polski) także przed wyrazami rozpoczynającymi się od spółgłoski w lub f: We wsi, we Wrocławiu, we Francji, we Włoszech, we włosach. We wtorek. We Lwowie (nie: w Lwowie). We środę a. w środę, we czwartek a. w czwartek. We dwie (w grupie dwu kobiet, dziewcząt), ale: w dwie strony świata. We trzech, we czterech (w grupie trzech, czterech mężczyzn, chłopców), ale: (powieść) w trzech, w czterech tomach. We wszystko, we wszystkim, we mnie. reg. małopol. we wodzie, we Wiedniu, we fabryce. · W połączeniu z formą jednosylabową przyimek we może być akcentowany, można też akcentować tę formę jednosylabową po nim, np.: we wsi [wym. we wsi a. we wsi], we śnie [wym. we śnie a. we śnie], ale we mnie [wym. we mnie, nie: we mnie].
    | D Kult. III, 289; M Ojcz., 17; Ma. Pol., 51; SWK, 342.
    Nowy słownik poprawnej polszczyzny PWN c Wydawnictwo Naukowe PWN SA
    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlike View Post
    Thomas, I see your point, but to me the only, say, standard (as I understand it) preposition we would here is 'w wiosce' rather than 'na wiosce', the former being extremely colloquial and therefore fit for the purpose of stylizing the text - indeed, that author might have very well written 'na wiosce' on purpose. Frankly, I see no other explanation.
    Well, I thought this had been established earlier on in the disussion.
    Anyway, I hope I didn't suggest it was otherwise.
    Please correct my errors! Thanks.
    Corrigez-moi, s'il vous plaît! Merci.
    Пoжaлуйcтa, иcпpaвьтe мoи oшибки! Бoльшoe cпaсибo.

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