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Thread: Raison, reason, ..

  1. #1
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    Raison, reason, ..

    In French one can use 'raison' in at least three ways:

    - reason vs. emotion
    - the reason for something
    - someone is right or wrong (il a raison)

    How about your language? Is there some link?

    Dutch:
    - rede
    - reden
    - (ik heb) gelijk

    German only has one:
    - Rede
    - Grund
    - recht

  2. #2
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasK View Post
    German only has one:
    - Rede
    - Grund
    - recht
    Isn 't "Vernunft" instead "Rede" in German?

    In Modern Greek:
    -λογική /loʝi'ci/ (reason) vs συναίσθημα /si'nesθima/ (emotion)
    -λόγος /'loɣos/
    -δίκιο /'ðicio/
    Last edited by Perseas; 22nd December 2012 at 2:59 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Finnish:

    järki
    "reason, sense"
    syy or aihe "reason, cause"
    oikea "right, correct" (olla oikeassa "to be right")


    Icelandic:

    skynsemi / vit "reason (= sense)"
    ástæða "reason (= cause)"
    réttur "right (= correct)"
    Last edited by Gavril; 22nd December 2012 at 9:21 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Perseas View Post
    Isn 't "Vernunft" instead "Rede" in German?
    Aaarrrrrhhhh, you are quite right, my mistake (misled by wishful thinking once again!)

    In the meantime it becomes clear, I suppose, that there is no inherent link between the three terms.

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    In Hebrew, there is really no connection between the three:
    Reason (vs.emostion) - הגיון [hegayon]
    Reason (to do something) - סיבה [siba]
    Il a raison - הוא צודק [hu tsodek] - he is right. [tsodek] comes from the word צדק [tsedek] which means justice​.

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    In Arabic:

    Reason (vs.emostion): العقل /'aql/ (vs العاطفة /'aaTefah/)
    Reason (to do something): سبب /sabab/
    Reason (right): صواب /Sawaab/ or حق /haqq/
    Last edited by ahmedcowon; 22nd December 2012 at 6:23 PM.

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Thanks, both. I just wonder: is there some kind of root in the words for 'reason' (vs. 'emotion') and 'reason for doing something' in Hebrew? And do the words in Arabic have some other meaning, some other derivations? 'haqq' sounds familiar for example. Something like 'certainty' - or is it knowledge? (But I was mixing it up with 'hadj', I think)

  8. #8
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Yes, Thomas, they do, as all Hebrew words have a root...
    The root for reason - הגיון [hegayon] - is הגי hgi
    The root for reason (to do something) - סיבה [siba] is סבב sbb

    I don't think these roots lead us any further. These roots are roots for other words as well, but non of which have anything to do with our topic; sbb can be the root for סביבה [sviva] enviironment, surroundings, להסתובב [lehistivev] to turn around, for example. הגי can be the root for להגות [lehagot] to pronounce. Also has to do with steering.
    However, there's the compound הוגה דיעות [hoge de'ot] - another word for philosopher, but I think that even here it's in meaning of pronouncing.

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasK View Post
    Thanks, both. I just wonder: is there some kind of root in the words for 'reason' (vs. 'emotion') and 'reason for doing something' in Hebrew? And do the words in Arabic have some other meaning, some other derivations? 'haqq' sounds familiar for example. Something like 'certainty' - or is it knowledge? (But I was mixing it up with 'hadj', I think)
    Arabic is like Hebrew

    As Tamar wrote, you can derive many words with different meanings from the same 3-letter root

    the word [حق haqq] means 'right' or 'truth' from the root [حقق hqq], a derived word [حقق haqqaqa] means 'investigate', another derived word [حقيقي haqiqi] means 'real'

    the word [سبب sabab] means 'reason for' form the root [سبب sbb],
    another derived word [سب sabb] means 'insult'

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Perseas View Post
    Isn 't "Vernunft" instead "Rede" in German?

    In Modern Greek:
    -λογική /loʝi'ci/ (reason) vs συναίσθημα /si'nesθima/ (emotion)
    -λόγος /'loɣos/
    -δίκιο /'ðicio/
    Αlso αιτία /e'ti.a/ (fem.) or αίτιο /'eti.o/ (neut.) besides λόγος /'loɣos/
    Les Grecs sont étonnants dans l'adversité - François Pouqueville

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Tagalog has word "dahilan" for Reason. The right reason is 'matuwid" and wrong one is "liko' "
    deKamatodeNah TeKatenggesan Ketam

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Czech:

    1) rozum vs. cit = reason vs. emotion (prefix roz- = dis-, out- + um = skill; umění = ability, also art);
    2) důvod = reason for sth (verbal noun from dovoditi: prefix do- = in- + voditi = to lead, ducere, cf. to induce, induction);
    3) má pravdu = lit. s/he has truth;

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Quote Originally Posted by mataripis View Post
    Tagalog has word "dahilan" for Reason. The right reason is 'matuwid" and wrong one is "liko' "
    Could you distinguish those along the lines in #1?

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasK View Post
    Could you distinguish those along the lines in #1?
    Dahilan is Tagalog word for reason or( the cause of).when it is right, "Matuwid" and when it is wrong "liko' " or " Mali' ". You can say the reasons and distinguish them which one is right or wrong.
    deKamatodeNah TeKatenggesan Ketam

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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasK View Post
    In French one can use 'raison' in at least three ways:

    - reason vs. emotion
    - the reason for something
    - someone is right or wrong (il a raison)
    In Portuguese, we use razãofor these 3 meanings, and also for ratio (the Latin origin being the same). I'm not sure, but doesn't the French raison have this meaning too?

  16. #16
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasK View Post
    In French one can use 'raison' in at least three ways:
    - reason vs. emotion
    - the reason for something
    - someone is right or wrong (il a raison)

    How about your language? Is there some link?
    Bosnian (in the same order you listed them)

    - razum
    - razlog
    - pravo

  17. #17
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Slovenian:

    - razum (reason as opposed to emotions)
    - razlog (reason to do something)
    - imeti prav (to be right, avoir raison)

  18. #18
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Thanks, I suppose the 'um' refers to skills, as Bibax pointed out, but how about 'log' then?

  19. #19
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Yes, you're right, prav imaš! The word um means in fact the ability to think soundly or make sane judgments. Razumeti is 'to understand'. The -log part is a bit more difficult to explain. This root is also present in the verb razložiti (imperfective: razlagati) 'to explain' (it can also mean 'to put down something', especially in the sense of putting some goods down from the ship/train etc). It's just occured to me that it may have something to do with lagati 'to lie', laž 'a lie', but I'm not sure!

  20. #20
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    Re: Raison, reason, ..

    Or maybe something to do with leči (root is leg-) 'to lie down' - there are similar constructions, e.g. teči 'to flow' (root is tek-) -> potok 'a brook' (po + tok), so raz + log would make sense! I will do a bit of research.

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