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Thread: I think they sang in Spanish

  1. #1
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    I think they sang in Spanish

    Suggestion:
    اظن ان غنوا باللغة الاسبانية
    or
    اظن غنوا باللغة الاسبانية

  2. #2
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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    the sentence should be
    "أظنهم غنوا باللغة الإسبانية"
    or
    "أظن أنهم غنوا باللغة الإسبانية"

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt356 View Post
    Suggestion:
    اظن ان غنوا باللغة الاسبانية
    or
    اظن غنوا باللغة الاسبانية
    You're missing the third person plural (presumably male) pronoun. The conjunction " 'anna " takes the subject of the coming clause in the accusative immediately after it. Here, you would affix "hum" to it.

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Isn’t Arabic like Spanish in that it does not require a subject. For example, can’t I say اكل or do I need to say انا اكل?

    Also, is 'anna spelled أَنَّ?
    Last edited by jmt356; 2nd January 2013 at 6:13 PM.

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt356 View Post
    is 'anna spelled أَنَّ?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt356 View Post
    Isn’t Arabic like Spanish in that it does not require a subject. For example, can’t I say اكل or do I need to say انا اكل?
    That's right. But, 'anna is from a group of conjunctive particles that requires the subject of the coming clause to immediately follow in the accusative. You don't have an option. If the subject is a pronoun, that enclitic pronoun is affixed to the conjunctive itself.

    The only exception is if the subject is indefinite and the predicate is a prepositional phrase. Then, the prepositional phrase comes first and the subject follows.

    This is all MSA. Dialects may be different.

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    I understand this:

    "أظن أنهم غنوا باللغة الإسبانية"

    But not this:

    "أظنهم غنوا باللغة الإسبانية"

    Why does the first verb need an object pronoun?

  7. #7
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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    By the way, in English the past tense of "sing" is "sang", not "sung".

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by fdb View Post
    By the way, in English the past tense of "sing" is "sang", not "sung".
    Must be a typo,using the past participle but it is good to alert the learners.

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by آمين View Post
    I understand this:

    "أظن أنهم غنوا باللغة الإسبانية"

    But not this:

    "أظنهم غنوا باللغة الإسبانية"

    Why does the first verb need an object pronoun?
    Verbs like ظن, رأى, حسِب often used for "I think that" take two objects and frequently "that" is omitted so you can say أظنهم instead of أظن أنهم.

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Talha View Post
    Verbs like ظن, رأى, حسِب often used for "I think that" take two objects and frequently "that" is omitted so you can say أظنهم instead of أظن أنهم.
    Thank you - I am glad I asked. That has cleared lots of things up!

    HOWEVER

    I was always under the impression that ظن means "He though that" and there is no need for an extra Anna.

  11. #11
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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by آمين View Post
    I was always under the impression that ظن means "He though that" and there is no need for an extra Anna.
    I'm not sure of the translation to English, but I do know that أظن أنهم فعلوا كذا and أظنهم فعلوا كذا are both used. Maybe a native speaker will give some insight on the difference.

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by Tensor78 View Post
    'anna is from a group of conjunctive particles that requires the subject of the coming clause to immediately follow in the accusative. You don't have an option. If the subject is a pronoun, that enclitic pronoun is affixed to the conjunctive itself.
    If أنَّ must be followed by the pronoun corresponding to the subject of the clause following it, then shouldn’t the phrase:
    هل تستطيعين أن تترجمي هذا المقطع؟
    instead be:
    هل تستطيعين أنِك تترجمي هذا المقطع؟

  13. #13
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    Re: I think they sang in Spanish

    أنْ is different from أنَّ
    أنْ is called أن المصدرية and the verb with أن can be replaced by a مصدر
    أن تترجم = ترجمة
    close to "to translate" and "translating" in English

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    Re: MSA: I think they sung in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt356 View Post
    If أنَّ must be followed by the pronoun corresponding to the subject of the clause following it, then shouldn’t the phrase:
    هل تستطيعين أن تترجمي هذا المقطع؟
    instead be:
    هل تستطيعين أنِك تترجمي هذا المقطع؟
    'an is not in the set of verb like conjunctives that 'anna is in. So, the second sentence is incorrect.

    'an and 'anna are both translated as "that", but 'an is used differently. It evokes the subjunctive after it, while 'anna does not.

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    Re: I think they sang in Spanish

    I do not believe انَ is spelled أَنَّ; I believe it is spelled إِنَّ (كسرة below the ء, not فتحة). ان, in contrast, is spelled أَنْ. Am I right?

    If a verb with أن can be replaced by the verb’s مصدر, then couldn’t I say instead of هل تستطيعين أنْ تترجمي هذا المقطع:
    هل تستطيعين ترجمة هذا المقطع؟

    Also, I don’t think I said “sung” in the title. I believe I said “sang.”

  16. #16
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    Re: I think they sang in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt356 View Post
    If a verb with أن can be replaced by the verb’s مصدر, then couldn’t I say instead of هل تستطيعين أنْ تترجمي هذا المقطع:
    هل تستطيعين ترجمة هذا المقطع؟
    هل تستطيعين ترجمة هذا المقطع is totally correct!

  17. #17
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    Re: I think they sang in Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt356 View Post
    I do not believe انَ is spelled أَنَّ; I believe it is spelled إِنَّ (كسرة below the ء, not فتحة). ان, in contrast, is spelled أَنْ. Am I right?

    If a verb with أن can be replaced by the verb’s مصدر, then couldn’t I say instead of هل تستطيعين أنْ تترجمي هذا المقطع:
    هل تستطيعين ترجمة هذا المقطع؟

    Also, I don’t think I said “sung” in the title. I believe I said “sang.”
    There are three words that seem to being confused. أنْ، أنَّ and إنَّ. These are different words. In the original sentence in the thread, the word should be أنَّ anna.

    In هل تستطيعين أن تترجمي هذا, the word is أنْ. This can be replaced by the مصدر so yes your second version is correct.

    Also, the title did say 'sung' and we the moderators corrected it to sang.

    There have been previous threads I believe about the differences in usage between these conjunctions, so I suggest searching through them. If not, feel free to open threads discussing these words.

  18. #18
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    Re: I think they sang in Spanish

    Can I say:
    اظن انَّ الاولاد غنوا باللغة الاسبانية
    Or would I have to say:
    اظن انَّهم الاولاد غنوا باللغة الاسبانية

  19. #19
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    Re: I think they sang in Spanish

    The first one is correct.
    The second is not correct because you mention both the noun الأولاد and the pronoun refering to it ـهم one next to the other and the pronoun preceding the noun to which it refers. It's like saying in English: I think that they the boys sang.

    So, it's either أظن أنّ الأولاد غنوا or أظن أنهم غنوا .
    خيرُ الكلامِ ما قلَّ ودَلّ

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