Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 41

Thread: Hindi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Native language
    American English
    Posts
    832

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    I think it is the Punjabi influence of QP's numerous contributions in this forum at work here, not Lucknow, Banaras, Mumbai, Delhi etc. It is typical Punjabi, not Hindi.
    Also Urdu, in the form rabb (originally Arabic, of course).

    As an aside, one has to be careful about making exact translations of expressions. The meaning can get lost somewhat if the idiom is peculiar to a language.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine9 View Post
    Also Urdu, in the form rabb (originally Arabic, of course).

    As an aside, one has to be careful about making exact translations of expressions. The meaning can get lost somewhat if the idiom is peculiar to a language.
    Yes, of course, رَبّ rabb is very much Urdu, but the vocative form with the suffix -aa is not a part of the Urdu system, however it is in Punjabi: O rabbaa meriyaa! which in Urdu we'd say او میرے ربّ O mere rabb!

    So I don't believe that Hindi differs from Urdu on this point.
    Last edited by marrish; 22nd February 2013 at 12:05 PM. Reason: add Urdu

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    So I don't believe that Hindi differs from Urdu on this point.
    Your belief, however, does nothing to change the reality! In fact, "rabb" is used much, much less in Hindi than the vocative "rabbaa". There are numerous words ending in -aa in Hindi in vocative, even if the words themselves come from different sources: "ammaa", "abbaa", "rabbaa", "baabaa", etc. Not to mention "parmatmaa". ("he parmatmaa, ...." - vocative usage).

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by greatbear View Post
    Your belief, however, does nothing to change the reality! In fact, "rabb" is used much, much less in Hindi than the vocative "rabbaa". There are numerous words ending in -aa in Hindi in vocative, even if the words themselves come from different sources: "ammaa", "abbaa", "rabbaa", "baabaa", etc. Not to mention "parmatmaa". ("he parmatmaa, ...." - vocative usage).
    If your thesis is correct then how do the nominative forms of ammaa, abbaa, rabbaa, baabaa and parmatmaa (shouldn't it rather be paramaatmaa?) look like?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    If your thesis is correct then how do the nominative forms of ammaa, abbaa, rabbaa, baabaa and parmatmaa (shouldn't it rather be paramaatmaa?) look like?
    There is no thesis: that is the work of those people who love to bring in some elitist stance. "rabbaa" is a commonly used word in Hindi: period. I don't know what's happening in Urdu, but anyway in Urdu there is not much variety for speaking to God, so it wouldn't surprise me.

    Meanwhile, in the manner of speaking, it should be rather "parmaatmaa".

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by greatbear View Post
    There is no thesis: that is the work of those people who love to bring in some elitist stance. "rabbaa" is a commonly used word in Hindi: period. I don't know what's happening in Urdu, but anyway in Urdu there is not much variety for speaking to God, so it wouldn't surprise me.

    Meanwhile, in the manner of speaking, it should be rather "parmaatmaa".
    I have offered my understanding of the vocative aspect for Urdu and for Hindi as well, that was the point, remember? If rabbaa is a commonly used word *form* in Hindi, that's fair enough and I thank you for this information, but the question which I asked in the above post remains, and yes, do leave ''rabbaa'' out, what are the nominative forms of ammaa, baabaa, parmaatmaa, abbaa?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Native language
    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Posts
    9,244

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by viggo_sanlorenzo View Post
    Hello everyone!
    Please I need to know how you say this sentence in Hindi/Urdu.
    A girl wants to say to a boy:


    "Oh my God John, your hair is so beautiful that I want to make my home there"

    Thank you so much in advance!
    Faiz Ahmed Faiz, when talking about his beloved said..

    terii aaNkhoN ke sivaa dunyaa meN rakhaa kyaa hai!?

    What is there in the whole world, apart from your eyes!?

    You might say..

    mere John, tere baaloN ke sivaa dunyaa meN rakhaa kyaa hai!? meraa ghar! jo tumhaare baaloN meN hai!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    Faiz Ahmed Faiz, when talking about his beloved said..

    terii aaNkhoN ke sivaa dunyaa meN rakhaa kyaa hai!?

    What is there in the whole world, apart from your eyes!?

    You might say..

    mere John, tere baaloN ke sivaa dunyaa meN rakhaa kyaa hai!? meraa ghar! jo tumhaare baaloN meN hai!
    QP SaaHib, very appropriate and creative use of the shi3r, but I'd leave the ghar part out, just for not destroying the effect!.
    (Isn't it rakkhaa instead of rakhaa?)

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    If rabbaa is a commonly used word *form* in Hindi, that's fair enough and I thank you for this information, but the question which I asked in the above post remains, and yes, do leave ''rabbaa'' out, what are the nominative forms of ammaa, baabaa, parmaatmaa, abbaa?
    If your point is that the nominative forms remain the same, then I don't understand why do you want to arrive there by means of rhetorical questions rather than simply stating it? In any case, what you are asking is irrelevant: we are not discussing nominative-vocative grammar here, nor do people start thinking of that before opening their mouths (except certain of those who aim to be grammar books walking on legs). People speaking experience "aa" as ending in many words that they are using in vocative, so "rabbaa" comes naturally to them - we were discussing the experiential aspect of things! LOL.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Native language
    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Posts
    9,244

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Amongst this list, the only word that is in the vocative case is "rabbaa" which is not part of either Hindi or Urdu grammar. If it were there would be other vocatives formed on the same pattern. This is based on Punjabi grammar and xudaayaa is based on Persian vocative pattern.

    The word is ammaaN, not ammaa. As it happens, neither is in the vocative case. It would be a joke or height of ignorance to state that baabaa, abbaa, parmaatmaa (may be we should include other non-declinable words ending in -aa such as daryaa as well here) are in the vocative case. One can use them as such where he/ai/are/o etc is understood but the -aa in them has nothing to do with the -aa in rabb-aa. When this -aa is removed, the basic word still remains. In other cases mentioned, we would be left with baab (door and chapter in Urdu), amm, abb, parmaatm, dary.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    ^ I prefer to state rather that these words do not decline in the vocative case, but when you say "O parmaatmaa", then "parmaatmaa" is being directly addressed to and is in the vocative case. That no change is occurring from its nominative form is something that I've already said before: I see no joke. The word "Urdu" comes from Turkish, that doesn't make it less Urdu; where "rabbaa" comes from is none of the concerns here: the word exists in spoken and written language (Hindi).

    As far as "amma(N)" is concerned, it's "ammaa" that is far more common than "ammaN": it's also a joke that you continue to disregard the language as it is.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by greatbear View Post
    ^ I prefer to state rather that these words do not decline in the vocative case, but when you say "O parmaatmaa", then "parmaatmaa" is being directly addressed to and is in the vocative case. That no change is occurring from its nominative form is something that I've already said before: I see no joke. The word "Urdu" comes from Turkish, that doesn't make it less Urdu; where "rabbaa" comes from is none of the concerns here: the word exists in spoken and written language (Hindi).

    As far as "amma(N)" is concerned, it's "ammaa" that is far more common than "ammaN": it's also a joke that you continue to disregard the language as it is.
    Don't hesitate to offer an example of it
    from written Hindi.

    Please re-read post #22 which made you response initially. I clearly stated that the vocative SUFFIX -AA was not part of the Hindi system and you threw baabaa, parmaatmaa as counter evidence!!!

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    Don't hesitate to offer an example of it
    from written Hindi.
    You would find many Bollywood songs for that; do you really wish me to do the searching for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    Please re-read post #22 which made you response initially. I clearly stated that the vocative SUFFIX -AA was not part of the Hindi system and you threw baabaa, parmaatmaa as counter evidence!!!
    I am afraid you misunderstood completely the "counter evidence"! I merely said that in Hindi there are many words which end in "-aa" when they are in vocative: if you thought that to be addition of suffixes, that's your problem. When a man grows up in a language, he doesn't analyse suffixes: he just feels many "aa"s in particular "zones". I am afraid that the argument will anyway be beyond you.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by greatbear View Post
    You would find many Bollywood songs for that; do you really wish me to do the searching for you?
    I have asked for examples from written Hindi, not sung, and yes, I'd insist that you search for it so that we can have a better idea of its usage.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Native language
    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Posts
    9,244

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    “There are numerous words ending in -aa in Hindi in vocative, even if the words themselves come from different sources: "ammaa", "abbaa", "rabbaa", "baabaa", etc..
    [.. ]”
    The argument is quite clear. Whether someone wishes to accept it or not, that is another matter. Neither Hindi nor Urdu have a vocative case that ends in "-aa". For a learner of Urdu/Hindi, as is the case with the OP, giving her "haay rabbaa" as a Hindi translation for "Oh my God.." implies that either "rabbaa" means "My God", which it does n't or that it is "God” in the vocative case, which it is. But this “-aa” case ending for the vocative is NOT part of Hindi (or indeed Urdu) language structure. However hard one tries to accommodate “ammaa” and “abbaa” as samples of Hindi vocative, one is left with no choice but to have a hearty laugh and reject them!

    “The word "Urdu" comes from Turkish, that doesn't make it less Urdu; where "rabbaa" comes from is none of the concerns here: the word exists in spoken and written language (Hindi).”
    It is not surprising that when requested, none of the Hindi speakers have come up with written examples of this usage and the best that has been offered is..
    “You would find many Bollywood songs for that; do you really wish me to do the searching for you?”
    Well, if one makes a claim then it should not be incumbent upon other people to substantiate it. Besides, Bollywood songs are not a written source. Not only this, we know what language these songs and the screenplay are in. Let’s us quote a participant from this thread.

    “As for Bollywood being a linguistic neutral ground - I would disagree. Bollywood Hindi is more or less Urdu, with a few words like "svikar" or "hinsak" thrown around. Bollywood is trying to market mainly to native Hindi speakers, Pakistanis and Punjabis (and perhaps to a minimal extent, Middle Easterners). Urdu is the de facto language of the business. Besides, Bollywood is not popular in South India. (souminwé)”
    Let us quote another participant.

    “Bollywood is of course not at all reflective of language in India! Not even of India!”
    I don’t know what the connection of “rabbaa” as a vocative is with “Urdu” as a word being of Turkish origins or indeed Hindi, as a word, being of Persian origins! One ends in "-uu" and the other in "-ii". Neither in "-aa".

    “As far as "amma(N)" is concerned, it's "ammaa" that is far more common than "ammaN": it's also a joke that you continue to disregard the language as it is.”
    I respect Wolverine9 for calling a spade a spade and his/her description of Hindi as “a type of creole” is quite apt for “the language as it is”. Perhaps he/she was over kind in using even this term!
    Last edited by Qureshpor; 24th February 2013 at 8:45 PM.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Native language
    American English
    Posts
    832

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    ^ Actually, I was referring to Hinglish as a type of creole.

    I think this discussion might be deviating from what the OP had in mind.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Native language
    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Posts
    9,244

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine9 View Post
    ^ Actually, I was referring to Hinglish as a type of creole.

    I think this discussion might be deviating from what the OP had in mind.
    Sure. The emphasis has been placed on the language as it is. This has been described in the "kih" thread as below (emphasis mine).
    If you watch a film like, say, "Jab We Met" (note the title itself), most of the dialogues are in that kitsch of Hindi and English - and this is not something contrived, but the actual way most Indians, especially urban Indians (note that urban doesn't mean "metropolitan cities" but small towns, too) but also the rest, speak.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    India
    Native language
    India - Hindi & English
    Posts
    2,525

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    I have asked for examples from written Hindi, not sung, and yes, I'd insist that you search for it so that we can have a better idea of its usage.
    OK, then, let me teach you how to search on the Net, right? Go to google, type "रब्बा" and select whichever results you think pass your qualification tests out of the 53,900 results available (as of now). Happy searching! If you want to disqualify all those 50,000 results for any of your whims, it's OK with me: you can live always with your own notions, no one is preventing that, hehe.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by greatbear View Post
    OK, then, let me teach you how to search on the Net, right? Go to google, type "रब्बा" and select whichever results you think pass your qualification tests out of the 53,900 results available (as of now). Happy searching! If you want to disqualify all those 50,000 results for any of your whims, it's OK with me: you can live always with your own notions, no one is preventing that, hehe.
    Your patronisingly pathetic response leads any reader to one conclusion only. By not providing written examples of Hindi use of "rabbaa", you have failed to substantiate your claim!

    A higher level of initiation to the mysteries of searching on the Net, if it you haven't reached there yet: the results should be approached critically since it is no Oracle whose judgments are to be accepted without discrimination. I left this privilege of separating the wheat from the chaff with you as it was you who made reference to written Hindi sources using the word ''rabbaa''.
    Last edited by marrish; 25th February 2013 at 10:59 PM.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Hidi/Urdu: Your hair is so beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by QURESHPOR View Post
    For a learner of Urdu/Hindi, as is the case with the OP, giving her "haay rabbaa" as a Hindi translation for "Oh my God.." implies that either "rabbaa" means "My God", which it doesn't or that it is "God” in the vocative case, which it is. But this “-aa” case ending for the vocative is NOT part of Hindi (or indeed Urdu) language structure.
    I'm not keen on Facebook so I to conduct a "face to face survey"of friends who happened to be Urdu speakers read these posts. *Every one of them* exclaimed when reading haay rabbaa that it was Punjabi!!!
    Well, they were not Hindi speakers.
    Last edited by marrish; 25th February 2013 at 11:50 PM.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •