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Thread: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

  1. #1
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    Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Would you have a 'respiratory' parallel for longing (noun or verb --- aspiring for)?

    It took me a while to find it in Dutch: zucht (naar). Zuchten is related with sighing, but can as a noun be used to refer to a "maniacal" aspiration (anorexia = magerzucht, alcoholism = drankzucht, etc.).

    (The background was my search for primary syntacticosemantic relations, such as the need for food and water (hunger and thirst)... I then guessed the need for breath/ air was equally important. But I could not think of a word that referred to that and could be used metaphorically - until...
    zucht !)
    Last edited by ThomasK; 10th March 2013 at 1:04 AM.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasK View Post
    Would you have a 'respiratory' parallel for longing (noun or verb --- aspiring for)?...
    Yes, in Hungarian. óhaj [noun], óhajt [verb]
    [ɒkinɛk humorɒ vɒn, mindɛnˤtud, ɒkinɛk niŋʧ, mindɛnrɛ ke.pɛʃ]

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Is it a very common one, and does it have some connotation? Is it the standard word for a wish?

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    The standard verb would be rather kíván, but óhajt is also a common verb. No connotation.
    [ɒkinɛk humorɒ vɒn, mindɛnˤtud, ɒkinɛk niŋʧ, mindɛnrɛ ke.pɛʃ]

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Czech:

    Besides other verbs we have dychtiti (from dech = breath, dýchati = to breathe). It means to pant (= to long for sth eagerly), to yearn for/after sth, to be desirous of sth.

    "Ústa svá otvírám a dychtím, nebo přikázaní tvých jsem žádostiv."  = I open my mouth and pant, because I long for your commandments. (Psalm 119:131)

    There is also vzdychati = to be sighing; vzdychati po = to be sighing for sb/sth.
    "Vzdychá po něm dnem i nocí." = She is sighing for him day and night.

    Both verbs are commonly used but they are not neutral.
    Last edited by bibax; 10th March 2013 at 8:51 PM.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Hi TK,

    Aspiring in Greek, is described by the adj. «επίδοξος, -ξη, -ξο» [e'piðoksos] (masc.), [e'piðoksi] (fem.), [e'piðokso] (neut.) < Classical adj. «ἐπίδοξος, -ος, -ον» ĕpídŏksŏs (masc. & fem.), ĕpídŏksŏn (neut.) --> of persons, likely/expected to turn out well, become glorious < compound, prefix and preposition «ἐπὶ» ĕpì --> upon, on, over, above (PIE *h₁epi/*h₁opi, near, at, against) + fem. noun «δόξα» dóksă --> expectation, opinion, judgement, later, splendour, glory; the secondary meanings, since the translation of the Hebrew scripture by the LXX into Hellenistic Greek; the 72 scholars, used «δόξα» dóksă 450 times, translating 25 different Hebrew words, the majority of these occurrences corresponds to the Hebrew word כבוד kavōdh (honour, splendor, power, glory). PIE *dek-, to take, accept, receive; cf Skt. दासति (dAsati), to give; Lat. docēre, to teach, tell, inform.
    Aspiration is:
    1/ «Επιδίωξη» [epi'ði.oksi] (fem.) --> aspiration, continued pursuit < Class. 3rd declension fem. noun «ἐπιδίωξις» ĕpĭdíōksis, cognate with the adj. «επίδοξος, -ξη, -ξο».
    2/ «Εισπνοή» [ispno'i] (fem.) --> inspiration, inhalation < Class. fem. noun «εἰσπνοὴ» eispnŏḕ < compound, prefix and preposition «εἰς» eis --> in, into + fem. noun «πνοὴ» pnŏḕ --> blowing, blast, breath (PIE *pneu-, to breathe, gasp cf Proto-Germanic *fneusanan > Ger. niese, Dutch niezen, Eng. sneeze).
    Thus, aspiration (continued pursuit) --> «επιδίωξη» aspiration (inhalation) --> «εισπνοή»
    Last edited by apmoy70; 10th March 2013 at 1:08 PM.
    Les Grecs sont étonnants dans l'adversité - François Pouqueville

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Interesting link Czech-Dutch: sighing and wishing.

    @apmoy: I see, no link indeed, then. Could I say that /edidokson/ has to do with thinking mainly? I just checked on wishing via Babylon translations, and I get: επιθυμώ, εύχομαι. Are those correct? Do they refer to a link? somehow?

    The beginning of ps. 45 led me to two more translations:
    - German: lechzen might imply heavy breathing too...
    - English: to pant seems to suggest 'to breathe rapidly in short gasps, as after exertion' and 'to long for'...
    Last edited by ThomasK; 10th March 2013 at 6:45 PM.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasK View Post
    ...

    @apmoy: I see, no link indeed, then. Could I say that /edidokson/ has to do with thinking mainly? I just checked on wishing via Babylon translations, and I get: επιθυμώ, εύχομαι. Are those correct? Do they refer to a link? somehow?

    ..
    Yep, «δόξα» dóksă in ancient Greek described mostly the result of the action of the verb «δοκῶ» dŏkô --> to think, suppose, seem:
    «δοκῶ μοι» dŏkô mœ --> I think
    «δοκεῖ μοι» dŏkeî mœ --> it seems to me

    In modern Greek, not anymore, it describes just the glory, splendour. In fossilized expressions though, the meaning of thinking, supposing, still pertains, e.g. «ἔδοξε τῇ βουλῇ καὶ τῷ δήμῳ» (in modern pronunciation) ['eðokse ti vu'li ce to 'ðimo] --> the boule (=parliament, congress) and the people have decided, «κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν» [ka'ta to ðo'kun] --> (s/he does) whatever s/he decides.
    «Eπιθυμώ» [epiθi'mo] and «εύχομαι» ['efxome] are not quite synonyms: the first means to desire for something, to long for it; the latter is an expression of wish for a particular outcome.
    Les Grecs sont étonnants dans l'adversité - François Pouqueville

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    I suddenly think /doksa/ might have the same origin as 'think'... Doesn't refer to light too (seem) ?

    Would the thumos have anything to do with breathing? I suppose it is a gland only, or is it more ?

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    The Russian word for 'to aspire' is стремиться (stre'mitsa), which originally means 'to flow quickly (in a certain direction)' and is clearly connected with the word stream. The phonetic term 'aspiration' is a borrowing - аспирация (aspi'ratsiya).

    There is the verb воздыхать (vozdy'khat) - 'to sigh' (for sb./sth.; used ironically), similar to the Czech vzdychati.
    Last edited by Saluton; 17th March 2013 at 12:50 PM.
    Please correct my mistakes wherever possible.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Very interesting! But then: the streaming does not remind of breathing, more of water, I suppose...

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Well, I never said it does
    Please correct my mistakes wherever possible.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Don't misunderstand: I just wanted to check whether there could be a link between breath and this form of streaming, that's why...

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saluton View Post
    The Russian word for 'to aspire' is стремиться (stre'mitsa), which originally means 'to flow quickly (in a certain direction)' and is clearly connected with the word stream.
    Strange enough it may seem, these words are unrelated:

    Stream < PIE *sreu - flow.
    Стремиться < стремить < Proto-Slavic *strьmъ (steep < to stick out), i.e. originally стремиться - to crash down from a height, which developed from the sense "to stick out, to tower above). No connection with flowing.

    Curiosely, English cognates of this Russian word are connected with stability rather than with swift movements: to stare.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    The different meanings based on one root do look quite intriguing: towering, fallng down and staring... But starting from a PIE root meaning 'strong, rigid', etc., it might make sense --- though the falling still seems strange... At etymonline, I discoverd that starve, stere, stern, stark, strut and torpor are all based on it... Quite amazing, quite interesting, thanks.
    Last edited by ThomasK; 17th March 2013 at 5:01 PM.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Latin aspīrāre has both meanings: the etymological meaning “breath towards” (ad+spīrāre), and the metaphorical “strive for”. The Romance languages inherited both meanings from Latin, and English has this word (with its two meanings) from French.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Similarly Hebrew שאף sh-'-f. It means both inhale and aspire.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    That is another confirmation then. I am still a little amazed that it is so common, but it seems understandable...

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maroseika View Post
    Strange enough it may seem, these words are unrelated:

    Stream < PIE *sreu - flow.
    Стремиться < стремить < Proto-Slavic *strьmъ (steep < to stick out), i.e. originally стремиться - to crash down from a height, which developed from the sense "to stick out, to tower above). No connection with flowing.

    Curiosely, English cognates of this Russian word are connected with stability rather than with swift movements: to stare.
    I don't believe it. The root is very widespread in both Germanic and Slavic languages, so it could have easily 'flown' from one group to the other. It might be that scholars just haven't coordinated their efforts well enough.
    Please correct my mistakes wherever possible.

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    Re: Aspiration - wishing and breathing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saluton View Post
    I don't believe it. The root is very widespread in both Germanic and Slavic languages, so it could have easily 'flown' from one group to the other. It might be that scholars just haven't coordinated their efforts well enough.
    I dare say it's not an object of belief, but of knowledge. Look Vasmer and Chernykh, this version is richly illustrated there with various examples. If your doubts are still with you, we can discuss them here in the new thread.

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