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Thread: christeln (Mauthner)

  1. #1
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    christeln (Mauthner)

    I suppose this is not a word that belongs to the Dictionary, but just a joke of the author - or does the word exist? I would assume that it could be translated into Engl. as something like "christianize" or "act in a christian way"...


    "Die Botschaft von der Wiederkehr des Gleichen, von der ewigen Wiederkunft aller Dinge, war keine fröhliche Wissenschaft; es wäre wohl möglich (und wäre nicht unedel gewesen), daß Rohde sich von seinem Freunde Nietzsche abwandte, als dieser das Lebenswerk Rohdes, die Arbeit an der Zerstörung des Seelenbegriffs, zu stören drohte; so wie Nietzsche, der Antichrist, Richard Wagner zu hassen begann, als dieser zu christeln anfing." (Mauthner)

    Does anyone have suggestions?
    Jede Korrektur oder Verbesserung ist herzlich willkommen./ I appreciate any corrections or improvements.

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    Re: christeln

    I understand it is more like "as he began to turn toward the church/Christ"

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    Re: christeln

    Quote Originally Posted by perpend View Post
    I understand it is more like "as he began to turn toward the church/Christ"

    But then wouldn't the word stays at the dictionary?
    Jede Korrektur oder Verbesserung ist herzlich willkommen./ I appreciate any corrections or improvements.

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    Re: christeln

    Not necessarily. These are "word constructions". "herbsteln" kenne ich auch. It means: autumn is in the air

    I don't know, but maybe that is in the dictionary.

    EDIT: And also, for an analogy, it means "it's beginning to turn autumn/fall", if you see the parallel. That was my point.

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    Re: christeln

    Quote Originally Posted by Löwenfrau View Post
    "Die Botschaft von der Wiederkehr des Gleichen, von der ewigen Wiederkunft aller Dinge, war keine fröhliche Wissenschaft; es wäre wohl möglich (und wäre nicht unedel gewesen), daß Rohde sich von seinem Freunde Nietzsche abwandte, als dieser das Lebenswerk Rohdes, die Arbeit an der Zerstörung des Seelenbegriffs, zu stören drohte; so wie Nietzsche, der Antichrist, Richard Wagner zu hassen begann, als dieser zu christeln anfing." (Mauthner)
    I'd say it means to behave like a Christian , like go to Mass every Sunday, say prayers every morning and evening , etc. but definitely meant to be derogatory.
    Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, .....

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    Re: christeln

    I see your point, perpend.
    Jede Korrektur oder Verbesserung ist herzlich willkommen./ I appreciate any corrections or improvements.

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    Re: christeln

    Hamlet, I agree that in this particular context/text "christeln" comes out derogatory. I wouldn't consider it always derogatory.

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    Re: christeln

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamlet2508 View Post
    I'd say it means to behave like a Christian , like go to Mass every Sunday, say prayers every morning and evening , etc. but definitely meant to be derogatory.
    No doubt it is derogatory... In fact, that's why I would rather find an "invented word" for a fine equivalence. Because if I say, for example, "he started doing christianities" (or smthg. like that), I'm obviously being derogatory. This tone does not necessarily appear with just "to behave like a Christian" or "to act like a Christian" or "to turn towards Christ".
    Jede Korrektur oder Verbesserung ist herzlich willkommen./ I appreciate any corrections or improvements.

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    Re: christeln

    Quote Originally Posted by perpend View Post
    Hamlet, I agree that in this particular context/text "christeln" comes out derogatory. I wouldn't consider it always derogatory.
    I understand why you wouldn't consider it always derogatory, but I still think that in this context a word should be used which could passes this tone...
    Jede Korrektur oder Verbesserung ist herzlich willkommen./ I appreciate any corrections or improvements.

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    Re: christeln

    Quote Originally Posted by perpend View Post
    Hamlet, I agree that in this particular context/text "christeln" comes out derogatory. I wouldn't consider it always derogatory.
    Actually, I've only ever come across examples of CHRISTELN that in some way ridicule the concept of CHRIST(IN) SEIN , because the person concerned either overdoes it or simply does not do enough.

    There is a word , which comes close to CHRISTELN , but does not carry the aspect of being a Christian , namely FROEMMELN.The dictionary gives "sich [übertrieben] fromm gebärden, [übertriebene] Frömmigkeit zur Schau stellen" .
    Last edited by Hamlet2508; 29th March 2013 at 2:09 PM.
    Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, .....

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    Re: christeln

    You could use "until he "found God"", but I'd put the "found God" in quotes, which gives it a derogatory tone.

    You could also use "born again", but again, you'll find that this does not translate well into English.

    Please keep asking questions, Loewenfrau, and maybe someone will figure out the appropriate tone. I have some errands to run.

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    Re: christeln

    In context, it means "play at Christianity". Nietzsche would not have supposed that Wagner was converting to Christianity, only that he was toying with it.

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    Re: christeln

    Quote Originally Posted by exgerman View Post
    In context, it means "play at Christianity". Nietzsche would not have supposed that Wagner was converting to Christianity, only that he was toying with it.
    Ich glaube, du hast den Nagel auf den Kopf getroffen. (That's exactly what "christeln" says here, in my opinion.)

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    Re: christeln

    Like on nouns (Band -> Bänd(s)el; Kind -> Kindel ),
    the ending -el on verbs is a diminutive suffix
    (klingen [to sound] -> klingeln [to ring]; kochen [to boil] -> köcheln [to simmer]; lachen [to laugh] -> lächeln [to smile] ) .

    In my point of view, a possibly derogatory tone is due to the fact that the "diminished" action expressed by such a verb with diminutive ending can often not be taken as seriously as the "undiminished" action expressed by the corresponding verb without the diminutive ending (tanzen [to dance] -> tänzeln [to prance]; husten -> hüsteln)
    Last edited by Gernot Back; 29th March 2013 at 7:23 PM.
    Song of the Nibelungs (222): THE KING SENT GERNOT BACK TO WORMS ... http://books.google.de/books?id=27no_PxwUkEC&pg=PA77&dq="222"

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    Re: christeln

    In this sense, I could also use "he started doing christianities/christishness"? (Or, anyway, a created word in like manner) Means the same as "play at Christianity", I just don't know if it sounds good.
    Jede Korrektur oder Verbesserung ist herzlich willkommen./ I appreciate any corrections or improvements.

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    Re: christeln

    In this sense, I could also use "he started doing christianities/christishness"? Or, anyway, a created word in like manner) Means the same as "play at Christianity", I just don't know if it sounds good.
    Jede Korrektur oder Verbesserung ist herzlich willkommen./ I appreciate any corrections or improvements.

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    Re: christeln

    Children play with toys, but play at being e.g. firemen. I think Nietzsche is complaining that Wagner is pretending, in the way that children do, to take Christianity seriously.

    "Doing Christianity" misses the point, that Wagner (according to Nietzsche) was merely pretending to take Christianity seriously.

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    Re: christeln

    Quote Originally Posted by exgerman View Post
    Children play with toys, but play at being e.g. firemen. I think Nietzsche is complaining that Wagner is pretending, in the way that children do, to take Christianity seriously.

    "Doing Christianity" misses the point, that Wagner (according to Nietzsche) was merely pretending to take Christianity seriously.
    I was thinking of that when suggested "christishness": because of the similarity with "childishness".
    Jede Korrektur oder Verbesserung ist herzlich willkommen./ I appreciate any corrections or improvements.

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    Re: christeln

    I know the word "frömmeln" (fromm tun, pejorative term) very well. It means to be sanctimonious. In contrast, "christeln" is a new word to me but I would intuitively interpret it as "to pretend to be a christian".

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    Re: christeln (Mauthner)

    I know the word "christeln" and it is not that uncommon in my region. It has a derogatory connotation (as Gernot explained with hüsteln) and it is close to frömmeln.

    I do not see the aspect "to pretend to be" in the foreground, but more the ridicule that the author holds Christian behaviour to be.


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