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Thread: תופעות לוואי

  1. #1
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    תופעות לוואי

    Hello,
    I have the impression that people say "tofa'ot levay", shouldn't it rather be "tof'ot levay" ? (Means "side effects")
    Thx!

  2. #2
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    Re: תופעות לוואי

    תופעה the singular of תופעות is pronounced tofa'a, so the final -a turns into -ot in plural construct, but the penultimate -a stays the same, so I'd say that tofa'ot is correct.

  3. #3
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    Re: תופעות לוואי

    Actually, my dictionary says that in the construct state it turns to Schwa, and thus tof'ot.

    airelibre, in construct states the stress moves forward to the latter word, so the stress here does not stay penultimate.

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    Re: תופעות לוואי

    Quote Originally Posted by ystab View Post
    Actually, my dictionary says that in the construct state it turns to Schwa, and thus tof'ot.

    airelibre, in construct states the stress moves forward to the latter word, so the stress here does not stay penultimate.
    That's true, I'd forgotten about that. Would you agree then, with hadronic's impression that "people say tofa'ot levay", in error?

  5. #5
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    Re: תופעות לוואי

    Quote Originally Posted by ystab View Post
    Actually, my dictionary says that in the construct state it turns to Schwa, and thus tof'ot.

    airelibre, in construct states the stress moves forward to the latter word, so the stress here does not stay penultimate.
    True, this is חוק ריחוק הטעם, in which the qamatz becomes shcwa when the stress moves forward. This law has no justification in the modern pronunciation and also it doesn't apply to patakh thus "a" sound remains there for many words. Therefore people may confuse the two - either keep the qamatz when it should become schwa, or change the patakh to schwa when it should remain patakh.

  6. #6
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    Re: תופעות לוואי

    Some qamatz don't weaken to schwa, though : בקשה bakkasha, bakkashat, bakkashot, bakkashotay.
    I believe it's the case for all action nouns of Pi'el and Hif'il.

    Back to initial topic, would you say that "tof'ot levay" is non-understandable, is understandable but sounds wrong, or is understandable but sounds pedantic ?

  7. #7
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    Re: תופעות לוואי

    Quote Originally Posted by hadronic View Post
    Some qamatz don't weaken to schwa, though : בקשה bakkasha, bakkashat, bakkashot, bakkashotay.
    I believe it's the case for all action nouns of Pi'el and Hif'il.

    Back to initial topic, would you say that "tof'ot levay" is non-understandable, is understandable but sounds wrong, or is understandable but sounds pedantic ?
    bakkashat is a very specific word which you barely hear.
    is understandable but sounds wrong.
    All the seats are taken in the parliament of fools!

  8. #8
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    Re: תופעות לוואי

    Quote Originally Posted by hadronic View Post
    Some qamatz don't weaken to schwa, though : בקשה bakkasha, bakkashat, bakkashot, bakkashotay.
    I believe it's the case for all action nouns of Pi'el and Hif'il.
    חוקי החיטוף are described in many places, here for example: http://he.wikibooks.org/wiki/%D7%9C%...98%D7%95%D7%A3. There are many exceptions of course.

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