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Thread: FR: elle s'est vu obliger de / elle s'est vue obligée de - accord du participe passé

  1. #1
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    FR: elle s'est vu obliger de / elle s'est vue obligée de - accord du participe passé

    Oh help...

    A la suite de l'accident elle s'est vu obliger de payer une forte amende.

    I chose s'est vue to put in the gap because the verb takes etre, and the subject is female... why is this wrong, why is it only vu??

    Help needed ASAP, thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    Re: FR: sortir - direct objects and auxiliary

    Kins, the example you found is correct. With the following constructions:
    Se voir + inf
    Se faire + inf
    Se laisser + inf
    The past participle does not agree with the preceding pronoun

  3. #3
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    Re: FR: sortir - direct objects and auxiliary

    Ok i understand that, but will the past participle agree with other reflexive verbs? or is there no agreement with reflexive verbs in general... sorry if this sounds like a stupid question

    Thanks

  4. #4
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    Re: FR: sortir - direct objects and auxiliary

    in general the direct object is the answer to "what?"

    for exemple "il a mangé un gâteau"
    il a mangé quoi? "un gâteau" ==> COD

    elle s'est vu obligée de payer
    elle s'est vu quoi? "obligée de payer.". after the verb so no agree
    C.

  5. #5
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    Re: FR: elle s'est vu obliger de payer / elle s'est vue obligée de payer

    I came across this thread and would like to clarify something.

    Elle s'est vu obliger de payer (= On l'a obligée de payer) ← No agreement because elle does not perform the action of obliger; she undergoes it.

    Elle s'est vue devoir payer ← Agreement because elle performs the action of devoir.

    Elle s'est vue obligée de payer. ← Agreement because obligée is not an infinitive but a past participle.

  6. #6
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    Il s'est vu obligé de vendre sa collection.

    Il s'est vu obligé / il s'est vu obliger. I thought that it was the second example? But my text book seems to suggest that the first example is correct.

    The reason I think the latter is correct is because it always gives the example "il s'est fait arrêter par la police judiciaire"
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 3rd March 2014 at 11:57 AM. Reason: posts merged to give the context in the 1st post

  7. #7
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    Re: Il s'est vu obligé/ il s'est vu obliger

    These two links


    seem to suggest that the infinitive is required.

    But let the experts confirm.

  8. #8
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    Re: Il s'est vu obligé/ il s'est vu obliger

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissPete View Post
    seem to suggest that the infinitive is required.

    But let the experts confirm.
    Oh... no-no-no-no-no-no!

    In order to find out whether or not an infinitive is required, one has to wonder 'Who?'.

    Who was responsible for "obliger"?
    Who was responsible for "conférer"?

    "Il s'est vu (obliger)" = he was obliged to = agreement is needed
    "Il s'est vu (conférer)" = someone else did = no agreement

    ... And therefore:
    "Il s'est vu obligé de..."
    "Il s'est vu conférer..."

    ... So now, guess what it should be for the sentence with "demander"!

    And yet the sentence with "'obliger" could also require an infinitive. But this would imply it being slightly different from what it is above.

    "Il s'est vu obliger Mademoiselle X à quitter les lieux."
    ... Why? Because he was the one who did oblige someone else.
    So the rule above (about 'who is actually responsible for') still applies here. What matters is 'who did? / who was?'.

  9. #9
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    Re: FR: elle s'est vu obliger de / elle s'est vue obligée de - accord du participe passé

    I'm afraid this is incorrect. The infinitive and the past participle are indeed possible in both cases in those examples. As a matter of fact, while the infinitive is always possible, the past participle is possible only when (1) the person does not perform the action of the infinitive (like obliger, but unlike devoir), and (2) the person is the direct object of the verb, hence when the verb can be put in the passive voice with the person as subject (like obliger qqnj'ai été obligé , but unlike conférer qqch à qqn → j'ai été conféré ).

    Elle s'est vu obliger de vendre sa collection = Elle s'est vue obligée de vendre sa collection = Elle s'est vue devoir vendre sa collection = She was forced to sell her collection. (Conditions 1 & 2 are both met with obliger, but condition 1 is not met with devoir.)
    Elle s'est vu conférer un diplôme = She was awarded a degree. (Condition 2 is not met → the past participle is not possible)

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