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Thread: Colocación objeto_sintagma

  1. #1
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    Colocación objeto_sintagma

    Hola de nuevo.
    Estoy escribiendo en inglés y me gustaría saber cual de las siguientes opciones que propongo es la más idónea:

    -We had rejected our planning application by the council.

    -We had our planning application rejected by the council.

    Muchas gracias.
    Un saludo

  2. #2
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    Re: Colocación objeto_sintagma

    Quote Originally Posted by carlostoledano View Post
    Hola de nuevo.
    Estoy escribiendo en inglés y me gustaría saber cual de las siguientes opciones que propongo es la más idónea:

    -We had rejected our planning application by the council.

    -We had our planning application rejected by the council.
    (Mejor sería "The council rejected our planning application.".

    Muchas gracias.
    Un saludo
    So much to learn, so little time!

  3. #3
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    Re: Colocación objeto_sintagma

    Gracias donbill

    Por qué la primera frase: '
    We had rejected our planning application by the council. ' es incorrecta?

    Saludos

  4. #4
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    Re: Colocación objeto_sintagma

    En voz activa, el inglés usa el orden sujeto + verbo + complemento directo. We had rejected our planning application me hace pensar que el mensaje tiene que ver con algo que nosotros habíamos hecho: "nosotros habíamos rechazado nuestra propia solicitud". Entonces la frase preposicional by the council no se compagina con la primera parte de la oración. La otra versión, "We had our planning aplicación rejected by the council", deja claro que 'the council' es la entidad que ha rechazado la solicitud. We had rejected = Habíamos rechazado; We had something rejected = se entiende "rechazado por otra persona". La interposición del complemento me dice que se trata de las acciones de otros y no de las nuestras.

    Me imagino que hay muchos foreros que pueden explicártelo mejor que yo, pero ¿esto te ayuda un poco?

    un saludo
    Last edited by donbill; 1st October 2013 at 2:24 AM.
    So much to learn, so little time!

  5. #5
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    Re: Colocación objeto_sintagma

    Quote Originally Posted by donbill View Post
    En voz activa, el inglés usa el orden sujeto + verbo + complemento directo. We had rejected our planning application me hace pensar que el mensaje tiene que ver con algo que nosotros habíamos hecho: "nosotros habíamos rechazado nuestra propia solicitud". Entonces la frase preposicional by the council no compagina con la primera parte de la oración. La otra versión, "We had our planning aplicación rejected by the council", deja claro que 'the council' es la entidad que ha rechazado la solicitud. We had rejected = Habíamos rechazado; We had something rejected = se entiende "rechazado por otra persona". La interposición del complemento me dice que se trata de las acciones de otros y no de las nuestras.
    Me imagino que hay muchos foreros que pueden explicártelo mejor que yo, pero ¿esto te ayuda un poco?
    un saludo
    I wonder if have+object+verb form (past participle) is a causative structure to have somebody do/doing something?

    We had our planning application rejected by the council
    ( it seems that we make the council to do that rejection).Causative structure

    The council rejected our planning application. No question the council rejected our planning application.

    I must have my watch repaired
    I'm going to have my hair cut this afternoon.

    The manager had everybody fill out a form
    Last edited by juan2937; 1st October 2013 at 12:08 AM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Colocación objeto_sintagma

    Quote Originally Posted by juan2937 View Post
    I wonder if have+object+verb form (past participle) is a causative structure to have somebody do/doing something?

    We had our planning application rejected by the council
    ( it seems that we make the council to do that rejection).Causative structure

    The council rejected our planning application. No question the council rejected our planning application.

    I must have my watch repaired
    I'm going to have my hair cut this afternoon.

    The manager had everybody fill out a form
    Interesting, Juan! It can be understood that way. We had our application rejected by the council has two possible meanings: 1) It was rejected by the council, and we suffer because of their rejection; 2) we caused them to do it.

    I find #1 to be the more logical of the two possibilities, but #2 is a possibility that had not occurred to me. Thanks for calling it to my attention.

    Un saludo
    So much to learn, so little time!

  7. #7
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    Re: Colocación objeto_sintagma

    Thank you.
    I agree with juan2937. I think we use a causative structure when we refer to things which we don´t do ourselves but ask others.
    For example: 'I had my laptop repaired last week'

    Thank you again.
    Best regards.

  8. #8
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    Re: Colocación objeto_sintagma

    Gracias donbill!

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