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Thread: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

  1. #1
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    Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Is there a Persian cognate for arashi "poet priest" Sanskrit rishi?

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    I haven't found any Persian cognate for it.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    What about Per. rish "beard"?

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Persian š 'beard' is unrelated to Avestan ərəši-.
    Last edited by Wolverine9; 9th February 2014 at 1:15 AM.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    There is no Avestan word "arashi". Av. ərəš ‘rightly’ is cognate with NP rāst etc. Av. ərəši- ‘envy’ is cognate with NP rašk. There is no connection between the two.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Is ereshi "envy" related to ereshi "poet priest or bard". Z was an ereshi "bard".

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    ^ ərəši- in the sense of ''priest-poet'' is mentioned in Yasna 31.5 and is of unknown etymology. Some propose it was a loanword into Proto Indo-Iranian.
    Last edited by Wolverine9; 10th February 2014 at 1:22 AM.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Yasna 31,5 (Ahunauuaitī Gāϑā). Whether ərəši- means ‘seer’ (Humbach) or ‘envy’ (Bartholomae) is debated, like everything in the Gathas.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Could envy be rage? ML West relates ereshi to Get. raisen "rage"

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    If it helps to find the Persian cognate M.L. West says ereshi is akin to German raisan/ rasen "to rage." OED says the following: race (n.1) http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gif"act of running," c.1300, from Old Norse ras "running, rush (of water)," cognate with Old English ræs "a running, a rush, a leap, jump; a storming, an attack;" or else a survival of the Old English word with spelling influenced by the Old Norse one. The Norse and Old English words are from Proto-Germanic *res- (cf. Middle Dutch rasen "to rave, rage," German rasen, Old English raesettan "to rage" (of fire)), from a variant form of PIE *ers- "be in motion" (see err). Originally a northern word, it became general in English c.1550. Meaning "act of running" is from early 14c. Meaning "contest of speed" first recorded 1510s.

    If I'm not mistaken the reason ereshi is related to Ger. rasen "to rave or rage" is because these poet-priests would consume psychadelics that would throw them into mantic, sometimes rough, trances.

    The PIE according to Joseph T. Shipley is *ergh and is related to a few interesting English cognates raise, run. Could the ereshi have had anything to do with the doctrine of the Resurrection? In the NT Jesus calls himself "the Rising Again."

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    My point is simply that ərəši- occurs exactly once in the Avesta, in a very obscure passage. Nobody really knows what it means. In this circumstance it is not possible to propose a likely etymology.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Can the second part of Xerxes's name be related with Skt. ṛṣi (as the Avestan term is obscure)?
    Xšaya-ṛšā / Xšayāršā

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Rüdiger Schmitt (following Hoffmann et al.) writes:

    “Old Persian Xšaya-šā is a compound with the verbal stem xšaya- “ruling” as the first element and the n-stem noun *šan- “hero, man” as the second element; the original n-stem paradigm, however, is preserved only in the nominative form, whereas the other cases are remodeled analogically in one way or another (see Kent, p. 65a); with the primary meaning “ruling over heroes” it is close to Ved. kayád-vīra- “id.” with a similar formation.”

    http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/xerxes-1-name

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Thanks. But, how secure is this *šan- “hero, man”? Do we have other cognates or attestations?

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    aršan- ‘man, hero, male animal’ is very common in the Avesta (see Bartholomae, AiWb 203), the regular Young Avestan reflex of *ṛšan- (Hoffmann, Aves. Laut- u. Flexionslehre 91); cf Gk ἄρσην, Ved. ṛṣabhá- ‘bull’.
    Last edited by fdb; 19th February 2014 at 12:15 PM.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Cool. Thanks!

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Monier Williams doesn't define ṛṣabhá as a 'steer' (castrated bull), but somewhat contrarily as 'a bull (as impregnating the flock)'. The latter meaning seems to work better when considering the Avestan evidence; a virile bull is more "heroic" than a castrated one.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    You are right. The word we need is English "bull" (German "Stier"). I have corrected it in no. 15.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    Quote Originally Posted by fdb View Post
    My point is simply that ərəši- occurs exactly once in the Avesta, in a very obscure passage. Nobody really knows what it means. In this circumstance it is not possible to propose a likely etymology.
    M.L. West seems pretty confidant that ereshi is akin to Ger. raissan which is PIE ergh, but shiply groups ergh with *rei and *res and river is lumped with rave and rage. If I'm not mistaken Av. Urvan "soul" and NPer. Ravan shenasi "psychology" and Rohani "spiritual leader" are indirectly relate to Av. Ereshi.

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    Re: Persian cognate of Avestan arashi

    rūḥānī is Arabic.

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