Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 39 of 39

Thread: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Native language
    Bengali (India)
    Posts
    711

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    S شبد शब्द śabd, vulg. sabd, and H. शबद śabad, sabad, s.m. Sound, noise; voice; grammar; a word; a name, term; (in Gram.) a declinable word (as a noun, pronoun, &c.) without its termination;—verbal communication; (among Nānak-panthīs), a song, a hymn
    I do hear the pronunciation "śabad" in this sense.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Native language
    American English
    Posts
    832

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    saNrachnaatayaa
    I don't want to interrupt your conversation but is the above word correct or is it a typo?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Thanks for asking; no, it’s not a typo, I meant to write it. If it is wrong, no doubt Hindi speakers will correct me.
    Last edited by marrish; 16th December 2013 at 4:46 PM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Native language
    Bengali (India)
    Posts
    711

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    About saNrachnaatayaa:

    It is incorrect from Sanskrit grammar point of view. Of course, it may still be acceptable in Hindi - I don't know.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Native language
    Bengali (India)
    Posts
    711

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    The "aasaan 3arbii-urduu" book on the other thread struck me. It is spelt 3arbii with a sukuun on re. I believe it is 3arabi(yy) in both Arabic and Persian. If I am not wrong, then that might be one more of those rare instances of difference in standard Urdu from Arabic vocalization.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Native language
    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Posts
    9,244

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by Dib View Post
    The "aasaan 3arbii-urduu" book on the other thread struck me. It is spelt 3arbii with a sukuun on re. I believe it is 3arabi(yy) in both Arabic and Persian. If I am not wrong, then that might be one more of those rare instances of difference in standard Urdu from Arabic vocalization.
    In Urdu, it is 3arabii. But, as we live in free society, people do say "3arbii" too. The printers ought to have known better.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by Dib View Post
    The "aasaan 3arbii-urduu" book on the other thread struck me. It is spelt 3arbii with a sukuun on re. I believe it is 3arabi(yy) in both Arabic and Persian. If I am not wrong, then that might be one more of those rare instances of difference in standard Urdu from Arabic vocalization.
    You are right! The sukuun is just wrong! The standard Urdu تلفظ is 3arabii. The zabar Harakat on re is there! We had a discussion about this sometime back.
    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Native language
    اُردو Urdu
    Posts
    5,810

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by Qureshpor View Post
    In Urdu, it is 3arabii. But, as we live in free society, people do say "3arbii" too. The printers ought to have known better.
    They should have known better indeed because they made baul (!) out of bol :-)

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Native language
    JA- English & Creole
    Posts
    1,631

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by marrish View Post
    After these series I asked him how he pronouced these words himself and the answer was, not really surprising but pleasantly sounding:

    "shakl, asl shabd shakl hai aur akl, akal nahiiN."

    I find this data a spanner in the works which goes against the premises of the original post with regard to Hind
    This was exactly my first response to reading this thread. I would argue that, at least in Dehli, shakl and akl are the common words. akal and shakal in fact seem harder to say.


    [vəzən], [əsəl]

    As far as the above two are concerned, these seem to fit in with what I have heard in Hindi.

    And we are completely ignoring a segment of the populace that say things like: umra and fikra.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faylasoof View Post
    For esp. new comers to any language, the standard forms are the ones that should be adopted
    I agree and disagree with this. If the "standard" form is in fact the form that is not commonly spoken by the populace, I think a newcomer is far better off learning to speak colloquially, like the masses, rather than trying to master a dying correctness rule. Arming certain newcomers with weapons of correctness can turn them into pronunciation Nazis when they realise no one is pronouncing it the "correct" way.
    Last edited by tonyspeed; 16th December 2013 at 6:45 PM.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyspeed View Post
    .....

    I agree and disagree with this. If the "standard" form is in fact the form that is not commonly spoken by the populace, I think a newcomer is far better off learning to speak colloquially, like the masses, rather than trying to master a dying correctness rule. Arming certain newcomers with weapons of correctness can turn them into pronunciation Nazis when they realise no one is pronouncing it the "correct" way.
    Tonyspeed SaaHib, we've been through this many times! Urdu has well-defined set of rules of pronunciation like any other language.
    Just as many in our subcontinent aspire to speak the best form of (until recently) British (call it Oxbridge) English, I see no reason why learners of Urdu would want to go for anything other then the best our language rules have to offer. We all recognize there are variants in Urdu just as in any other language, so I don't think we are aspiring to me "linguistic Nazis".... and, BTW, I follow this advice myself, i.e. choose the standard forms whenever I learn a foreign language. The rest can follow. Furthermore, it seems Urdu has become / is becoming foreign to a lot of people, esp. in the land of its birth!
    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Native language
    Hindi
    Posts
    658

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by Faylasoof View Post
    Furthermore, it seems Urdu has become / is becoming foreign to a lot of people, esp. in the land of its birth!
    Very true, Faylasoof SaaHib. A case in point is this poster from Lucknow.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Native language
    Bengali (India)
    Posts
    711

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by Faylasoof View Post
    I follow this advice myself, i.e. choose the standard forms whenever I learn a foreign language. The rest can follow.
    What will you do if you learn Norwegian, which has no specified spoken standard, out of deliberate motives?

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Native language
    Hindi
    Posts
    841

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by Dib View Post
    What will you do if you learn Norwegian, which has no specified spoken standard, out of deliberate motives?
    Neither has Hindi. I don't think many people in India, including very well educated ones, aspire to "Oxbridge English". Bharatvarsh mein rahne ke baad itna to zaroor keh sakta hun. Idhar ek quote ek puraane fransisisi thread se bahut upyukt hai:

    "Comme je déteste le fait qu'il y a du "bon usage" en français. Contrôler et limiter les langues ne sert jamais à rien, comme les langues changent quotidiennement. Que la langue correcte soit définie par le peuple" (Kitna nafrat karta hun main is baat se ki fransisi mein "bhasha ke achchhe taur-tarike" hain. Bhashaon ko niyantrit aur simit karna kisi kaam nahin aata, chunki bhashayen har din badalti hain. Sahi bhasha ko logon ke dvaaraa paribhashit hone do"

    Vaise, maine kabhi "shabad" ko nahin suna, par itne bade desh mein na jaane kya-kya hota hai! Rahi aur shabdon ki baat, to "shakl" aur "akl" zyaada bole jaate hain, par "shakal" aur "akal" bhi sun ne mein aayenge aur kisi ko adhik dikkat nahin pesh aayegi.
    Last edited by littlepond; 17th December 2013 at 11:22 AM. Reason: typo

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by Dib View Post
    What will you do if you learn Norwegian, which has no specified spoken standard, out of deliberate motives?
    Dib jii, the answer to your very interesting question is obvious! But we are discussing languages (like Urdu) where we have clearly defined pronunciation rules!
    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Plato's Republic
    Native language
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Posts
    5,570

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    Quote Originally Posted by littlepond View Post
    Neither has Hindi. I don't think many people in India, including very well educated ones, aspire to "Oxbridge English". ....
    I am aware of these trends but please see my post above, as far as Urdu goes. I don't wish to discuss the "Oxbridge English" issue as it'll just derail the thread and the lack of or a supposed lack of standardized Hindi pronunciation has historical roots which too we'd rather skip as that too will derail the thread. BTW, this has been discussed before in various older threads.
    Utlub al-‘ilm min al-mahd ilal-laHd Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave (Ali ibn Abi Talib)

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Native language
    Hindi
    Posts
    841

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    ^ Aapka hukm sar aankhon par, janaab!

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Native language
    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    Posts
    489

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    @Littlepond jii, I will have to respectfully disagree with you. Hindi is spoken by a large number of people in diverse regions so different pronunciations are to be expected, but that of educated Delhi speech is considered the norm or standard. This is what grammar books and dictionaries emphasise. I won't elaborate on this further or on Oxbridge English out of respect for Faylasoof jii's request.

    I also think it is important for people to learn correct usage. One can always adjust speech to fit the colloquial pattern but it's important to have the knowledge of what's correct. Correct forms are also used in writing even if not always in speech.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Native language
    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    Posts
    489

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    @Sapnachaandni jii, this is a very good thread you have started. I am quite impressed that you know Hindi and Urdu in addition to your native Farsi. Vaah! Aap to bahut sundar Hindii-Urduu likhtii haiN.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Iran, Tehran
    Native language
    Persian (فارسی)
    Posts
    276

    Re: Urdu-Hindii: تلفظ , उच्चारण

    ^ dhanyvaad mundiya jii.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •