Miss or Mrs or Ms ?

[andersxman]

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I write many emails in english, and therefore I would like to be certain that I address fx. divorced women in a correct manner. How should I address a women who's had a divorce? Ms + maiden name? Or Mrs + what? And further, what is more correct: putting a dot after "ms." and "mrs." or writing "ms" and "mrs"

Thank you very much

[Aupick]

The choice between 'Ms' and 'Mrs' is a personal one that depends on how the woman in question feels. As much as possible, you should try to copy what she does. However, if you don't know, I'd vote for 'Ms' (with either the maiden name or the married name).

The choice between maiden name and ex-married name depends on whether or not the woman has changed her name since her divorce. If you don't have this information (and can't find it out), I'd vote for using the married name since if you're wrong, it would just be considered that you're out of date. Being wrong the other way round is presumptuous. If the woman has been divorced for a while, you don't really have an excuse for not knowing.

Note that these are separate questions, really. Ms replaces both Mrs and Miss and was an attempt to do away with the sexist obsession with specifying a woman's marital status. It's not really a choice between Mrs + married name and Ms + maiden name. You could use Ms with both maiden and married names. Otherwise you would use Mrs with the married name and (in theory) Miss with the maiden name. Miss is really condescending, though, and I recommend avoiding it altogether.

Finally, American English tends to use dots (Mrs. and Ms.) where British English doesn't (Mrs and Ms), but these are not strict rules.

[Kelly B]

Hello,
In the US at least, a divorced woman generally retains the last name she used before the divorce, whether that was her (ex) husband's name or her maiden name, until/unless she remarries later. Ms. is usually a safe choice here. We use the period; in the UK it is not used.

[lsp]

Originally Posted by andersxman

I write many emails in english, and therefore I would like to be certain that I address fx. divorced women in a correct manner. How should I address a women who's had a divorce? Ms + maiden name? Or Mrs + what? And further, what is more correct: putting a dot after "ms." and "mrs." or writing "ms" and "mrs"

Thank you very much

You hit on one of the very reasons for the creation of Ms in the first place. Married, single, divorced - why is it anyone's business for a woman more than for a man, and how is one supposed to know, anyway? Unless you have specific information on her preferences, Ms is the accepted and expected greeting (with or without the punctuation - there's another whole thread on that).

[cuchuflete]

Originally Posted by Kelly B

Hello,
In the US at least, a divorced woman generally retains the last name she used before the divorce, whether that was her (ex) husband's name or her maiden name, until/unless she remarries later.

Kelly B may be right about this, but in my limited experience, it seems that about half the divorced women I know keep...for a while at least...the husband's last name, if they used it while married, and the other half resume use of their maiden name.

This may be more sociological than linguistic speculation, but I think those women who keep the husband's last name most are those with young children. It can be fairly confusing to school administrators to receive a phone call..."Hello, this is Martha Moore, mother of Tiffany Humperdinck, in Ms O'Henry's first grade class..."

[Brioche]

Some women are happy with Ms and some are not.

Some married women, particularly older women, dislike Ms intensely.

Some divorced women stay Mrs Brown.
But some use Ms Brown, some go back to Miss Smith, some to Ms Smith.

The only way to know for sure is to make discrete enquiries.

In UK, if an abbreviation is formed from the first and last letter(s) of a word, don't use a dot. Write Ms Mr Mrs
Doctor = Dr ft = foot
but February = Feb.

[GenJen54]

Originally posted by lsp
Unless you have specific information on her preferences, Ms is the accepted and expected greeting

I would agree with everything said so far, but have one minor addition. One might consider me a traditionalist, but I still believe it appropriate to use "Miss" when addressing formal correspondence to a young girl still living with her parents (high school age or below.) For example, if I were inviting someone to my wedding, I would address the invitation to "Miss Susan Jones," not "Ms."

[Kräuter_Fee]

I have a big question!!!

If Ms is Miss... then... how do you spell Mrs?????

[cuchuflete]

Originally Posted by Kräuter_Fee

I have a big question!!!

If Ms is Miss... then... how do you spell Mrs?????

Ah, if only life were so logical! Ms is, I think, a word rather than an abbreviation. Is there an abbreviation for 'miss'?

I think Ms means the collective of Mrs. and Miss. Or the absence of both, as Ms has no connotation regarding marital status, other than that of the user to say it's immaterial and/or none of your business.

[Kräuter_Fee]

Really? Gosh... 13 years learning English and till today I thought Ms was the abbreviation of miss.

And about Mrs... isn't there a way to write that? Mississ or something like that?

[Aupick]

Originally Posted by Kräuter_Fee

I have a big question!!!

If Ms is Miss... then... how do you spell Mrs?????

In fact Miss and Mrs were both (originally) abbreviations for Mistress. For some reason, Miss came to be used for unmarried women and Mrs for married women. It's a (not uncommon) mistake to think that Ms stands for Miss, but it really stands for both, in order to avoid commenting on marital status, as various posts have said. At this point all three are words in their own right, not abbreviations. As is Mr, which should not be written out as Mister. Mr was originally an abbreviation for Master.

[GenJen54]

Originally posted by Kräuter_Fee
I have a big question!!!

If Ms is Miss... then... how do you spell Mrs?????[/b]

I have seen Mrs spelled out as "missus," but only in literary dialog, when an author wanted to emphasize a particular character's pronunciation of the word.

Here is a quick "how to" guide:

Miss - young girl or woman under 18(?) still living with her parents
Ms - young woman out of the home who is either single, or married
Mrs - married woman - typically for social correspondence

Some women, especially those who married after having established a career, choose to keep their maiden names for their work correspondence, and use their married names for social correspondence.

Others choose to hyphenate, such as Ms Susan Smith-Jones

I can say that in 99% of any business correspondence I write, I use "Ms," regardless of whether the person to whom I'm writing is married.

For formal social correspondence (wedding invitations), I would use Mrs., but then I would also use her husband's name, such as: Mrs. Brandon Jones.

[emma42]

Hi. You would never write "mississ". Sometimes you will read "Missus", but this would be used in, say, a novel using informal/working class speech "Alright, mate, how's the Missus today?" Generally, though, it is always "Mrs". "Mrs" is actually an abbreviation of "Mistress" - see "Mistress Quickly" in Shakespeare (Merry Wives of Windsor? Henry V?). Hope I have not confused you more.

[cuchuflete]

Originally Posted by Kräuter_Fee

Really? Gosh... 13 years learning English and till today I thought Ms was the abbreviation of miss.

And about Mrs... isn't there a way to write that? Mississ or something like that?

for fun...

Acronym(s) Definition(s) Info MS Combination of Miss and Mrs. (title of address for women)
MS Mad Scientist
MS Magestorm (game)
MS Maggie Simpson
MS Magical Sword (Legend of Zelda game)
MS Manta Sonica (band)
MS Maple Story (computer game)
MS Marge Simpson
MS Mario Sunshine (video game)
MS Martin Scorsese (film director)
MS Marus Seru (Everquest)
MS Master Shake (cartoon character)
MS Master Sword (Legend of Zelda Game)
MS Maybe So
MS Metal Slug (game)
MS Metal Sonic (gaming character)
MS Michael Schumacher (F1 driver)
MS Michael Shanks (actor)
MS Michele Soavi (film director)
MS MirrorSoft (former game maker) Next page of

http://slang.acronymfinder.com/af-qu...g=exact&page=1

There were hundreds. My dictionaries say that Miss comes from Mistress, and is thus already an abbreviation, and that Ms. is a word in its own right as well as an abbreviation [M(ISS + MR)S].

[modgirl]

Originally Posted by cuchuflete

It can be fairly confusing to school administrators to receive a phone call..."Hello, this is Martha Moore, mother of Tiffany Humperdinck, in Ms O'Henry's first grade class..."

In the year 2005, I strongly disagree. Blended families are nearly the norm, unfortunately. Many women who remarry do take their new husbands' names, yet the children retain whatever surnames they originally had. Also, many women do not change their names upon marriage, and thus children may have their fathers' last names or a hyphenated surname or possibly even the mother's surname only. The combinations are nearly endless!

Quite frankly, I'd say it's nearly a 50/50 chance that a child will have his mother's surname today.

[panjandrum]

The general rule in official letters - as far as I recall - is to use Miss up to school-leaving then Ms unless there is clear evidence that Miss or Mrs is preferred.
Why?
Ms is acknowledged by many as an "I'm not sure" as well as being a deliberate choice.
A Ms accidentally referred to as Miss or Mrs is, generally, more vociferous than a Miss or Mrs accidentally referred to as Ms.

I agree with modgirl about the diversity of surnames - teachers these days are well-used to this and most are very careful indeed not to assume anything about surnames or family circumstances (based on personal research during WMPG's first year at school ).

Footnote - BE would not generally put a full stop after Feb for February - but it seems that OzE might (see Brioche's post, above).

[Kräuter_Fee]

Thank you for your answers!

One last question... Ms und Miss are pronounced in the same way, right?

[Rach404]

I don't know about other people, but I have always said, and have always heard other people say, Ms pronounced with a kind of "zz" sound at the end....

[emma42]

Yes, me too. I pronounce "Ms" - "muzz".

[Isotta]

Originally Posted by emma42

Yes, me too. I pronounce "Ms" - "muzz".

I say "mizz" for "Ms." Maybe that's American.

Zot.