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Thread: Sexism in the World

  1. #61
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    Re: Sexism in the World

    On the evidence proffered (vide #59) I concede that some women would not be of too much use on the battlefield.
    Last edited by emma42; 25th January 2007 at 9:44 PM.

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by emma42 View Post
    On the evidence proffered, I concede that some women would not be of too much use on the battlefield.
    Thousands of years of experience tell us that this is the case for most blokes.

    Robert

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Some days ago an Islamic funeral was celebrated in Tunisia after the homicide of an Italian woman and her baby who were brutally slaughtered by a mental couple who were only seeking for revenge on the mum and her son.
    Italian journalists reported that women could not attend the Islamic funeral (only men can to do that) and would only be allowed to go to the cemetery and pray on the dead's tomb three days after the burial.
    That's one of the worse form of sexism, by my opinion.

    Brevity is the soul of wit - Le persone intelligenti hanno il dono della concisione

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by TrentinaNE View Post
    I can point out a number of female participants in this forum who think and express themselves much more logically than an equally large number of male participants. I also know many women who are much better at shedding distractions and focussing on the thing at hand than are an equally large number of men. Even if a stereotype is true on average (and I'm not conceding that they are), there is a great range of variability within groups. Look at one difference that I will concede: Men, on average, are taller than women. That doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of women who are taller than plenty of men.
    (Highlights are mine)
    TrentinaNE, I remember one of our dearest foreros (cuchu, to be precise) posted once that "a statistician can have his head in an oven and his feet in ice, and he will say that on the average he feels fine".

    Even if a stereotype is true on average (and sometimes, it is), every case must be taken individually, and every person must be treated as a person, not as a "person with(out) an X choromosome".

    Am I making myself clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulfromitaly View Post
    That's one of the worse form of sexism, by my opinion.
    In my opinion, that's just religious differences... Whether we like them or dislike them, is not up to those who practice them.
    Last edited by Venezuelan_sweetie; 25th January 2007 at 9:52 PM. Reason: Delete chat :( :'( X'( Bohooo! Snif, snif...
    Incipiente, como las muelas del juicio.

  5. #65
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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by TrentinaNE View Post
    I can point out a number of female participants in this forum who think and express themselves much more logically than an equally large number of male participants. I also know many women who are much better at shedding distractions and focussing on the thing at hand than are an equally large number of men. Even if a stereotype is true on average (and I'm not conceding that they are), there is a great range of variability within groups. Look at one difference that I will concede: Men, on average, are taller than women. That doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of women who are taller than plenty of men.
    I agree with you on that. I am not saying that every woman is a blubbering idiot and every man is a regular McGyver. It IS a generalization. For those of whom are tough and have a good head on their shoulders, if they want to do something like the armed services, then I do not have a problem with that. They are not the ones that will possibly or probably endanger the rest of the company. The ones that I am against aare the ones the board has lowered the standards for. Is that understandable?
    If not me, then who? If not now, then when?

  6. #66
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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Venezuelan_sweetie View Post

    In my opinion, that's just religious differences... Whether we like them or dislike them, is not up to those who practice them.
    When a "religious difference" always discriminate the same sex, that is the female sex, I call it sexism.

    Brevity is the soul of wit - Le persone intelligenti hanno il dono della concisione

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulfromitaly View Post
    When a "religious difference" always discriminate the same sex, that is the female sex, I call it sexism.
    And, you are in your right to call it whatever you want... To yourself. According to your reasoning, many other religions would be sexist, and would fall into far stronger "rankings" according to what they accept/reject.

    But hey, that's not the topic of this thread. Check this one out, it was nice, and adressed to some of the thoughts that could lead to your statements.

    Enjoy!
    Incipiente, como las muelas del juicio.

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulfromitaly View Post
    Some days ago an Islamic funeral was celebrated in Tunisia after the homicide of an Italian woman and her baby who were brutally slaughtered by a mental couple who were only seeking for revenge on the mum and her son.
    Italian journalists reported that women could not attend the Islamic funeral (only men can to do that) and would only be allowed to go to the cemetery and pray on the dead's tomb three days after the burial.
    That's one of the worse form of sexism, by my opinion.
    I will consider this to be a form of compassion. I have been to one funeral in my life and I hope that the next one I attend will be mine.

    .,,

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Poetic Device View Post
    I agree with you on that. I am not saying that every woman is a blubbering idiot and every man is a regular McGyver. It IS a generalization. For those of whom are tough and have a good head on their shoulders, if they want to do something like the armed services, then I do not have a problem with that. They are not the ones that will possibly or probably endanger the rest of the company. The ones that I am against aare the ones the board has lowered the standards for. Is that understandable?


    Please at least try to employ some consistency in this anti-female rant. Are you against women in the military because they cannot carry 200 pounds, because they are too compassionate, or because they have periods? Or perhaps because a battlefield is no place to replenish one's lipstick?

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Poetic Device View Post
    A prime example of what I am/was talking about: my best friend went for a job interview a few days ago. She's twenty years old and very attractive. She dressed appropriately and whatnot and has a fantastic resume, especially for someone her age. When the gentleman that was going to interview her came out to greet her, he was reading her resume with a very big smile on his face. When he saw who she was, however, it was apparent that the warm and fuzzy feeling that he felt dissapeared. She just called today and they told her that she did not get the job because they wanted someone with more "experience". (Meanwhile, because of her volunteer work and small temp. jobs she has been working in her profession for a little more than five years.)
    This seems to support an allegation of ageism rather than sexism. The resume must have listed the gender of the applicant quite clearly. This is implied by the given name and title. The age of the applicant is often not so prominently displayed and even when it is it is often given as a date of birth which is not always accurately mentally translated.
    I think that this story indicates that the boss wanted someone with more life experience and this is possible only by aquiring age.

    .,,

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Why the sensitivity about calling religious sexism "sexism"? The usual excuse is to attribute the obvious sexism of some religions to "tradition". Duh! Isn't that also the source and/or justification given for other forms of sexism?

    This post is not an attack on anyone's religion, or any one religion. It is a statement of fact. Many major religions discriminate against women. It's fine to try to excuse that or explain it away by saying, "Oh, but that's different...." but it is not different if it bars women from employment in the upper ranks, or any ranks, of the clergy. That is sex discrimination.
    That mod mods best that mods least...with apologies to Th. Jefferson.

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    It's illegal in NJ to ask one their age.
    If not me, then who? If not now, then when?

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Poetic Device View Post
    It's illegal in NJ to ask one their age.
    This is eveh more evidence to support my contention that your friend was the victim of ageism not sexism.
    It is not illegal to ask for the gender of a prospective employee so that was not a surprise but the age was and she lost the job because she was not considered to be old enough.

    .,,

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by cuchuflete View Post
    This post is not an attack on anyone's religion, or any one religion. It is a statement of fact. Many major religions discriminate against women. It's fine to try to excuse that or explain it away by saying, "Oh, but that's different...." but it is not different if it bars women from employment in the upper ranks, or any ranks, of the clergy. That is sex discrimination.
    Oh wait a second! Nobody has said to be in favor with that. I personally dislike that type of things. Ok, let's be honest, I consider it discrimination, and I don't know what my reactions would be had I been raised in any of those contexts.

    What I'm saying is (a) the reasons for those discriminations are not socials, but religious, and we all know that threads which start "flirting" with religious topics end up with a lock, and (b) I somehow felt we were getting off-track.

    But if I'm mistaken, then feel free to ignore my previous post.
    Incipiente, como las muelas del juicio.

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulfromitaly View Post
    When a "religious difference" always discriminate the same sex, that is the female sex, I call it sexism.
    Agreed, Paul. But if the culture so determines then it will be ever thus, provided the women are happy with the situation. There have, of course, been many examples of *lowly* women trying to break away from their culture but without much success.

    I spent six months working with Iranians in a small fishing village on the Persian Gulf. While the men laboured for us, earning some much-needed money, the women happily went about their work - caring for the children, fetching water, tending sheep and goats, cooking, washing, gathering huge bundles of wood for the fire, sweeping out their one-roomed, very sparsely furnished houses. To me, theirs was a blissful life. They had big, happy smiles on their faces and always the time to stop and have a chat with me when I wandered into the village.

    My boyfriend and I became close friends of the local doctor and were often invited to his home for dinner. He once made a very interesting comment - there wasn't a single person there who suffered from mental illness.

    I envied their way of life. Compared with all the ills of the developed world, I know which one I would choose.

    What's more, they didn't mind us wearing bikinis while we worked. Naturally we asked for their permission first. Neither the women nor the men objected, nor did the men ogle us. For Muslims to allow us this privilege was quite exceptional.

    LRV
    Last edited by la reine victoria; 25th January 2007 at 11:08 PM.

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by .,, View Post
    I will consider this to be a form of compassion. I have been to one funeral in my life and I hope that the next one I attend will be mine.

    .,,
    You chose to attend just one funeral in your life and you were allowed to do that whereas some women around the world are not free to decide whether to do it or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by cuchuflete View Post
    Why the sensitivity about calling religious sexism "sexism"? The usual excuse is to attribute the obvious sexism of some religions to "tradition". Duh! Isn't that also the source and/or justification given for other forms of sexism?

    This post is not an attack on anyone's religion, or any one religion. It is a statement of fact. Many major religions discriminate against women. It's fine to try to excuse that or explain it away by saying, "Oh, but that's different...." but it is not different if it bars women from employment in the upper ranks, or any ranks, of the clergy. That is sex discrimination.
    I thoroughly agree with you.

    Brevity is the soul of wit - Le persone intelligenti hanno il dono della concisione

  17. #77
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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by la reine victoria View Post
    But if the culture so determines then it will be ever thus, provided the women are happy with the situation. There have, of course, been many examples of *lowly* women trying to break away from their culture but without much success.

    I spent six months working with Iranians in a small fishing village on the Persian Gulf. While the men laboured for us, earning some much-needed money, the women happily went about their work - caring for the children, fetching water, tending sheep and goats, cooking, washing, gathering huge bundles of wood for the fire, sweeping out their one-roomed, very sparsely furnished houses. To me, theirs was a blissful life. They had big, happy smiles on their faces and always the time to stop and have a chat with me when I wandered into the village.
    How do you know those women who smiled at you during the day weren't beaten up by their husbands at night?

    I don't believe that women are ever really content with being second-class citizens.
    Deuparth gwaith yw ei ddechrau.

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    LRV, that's one of the reasons why it's great you didn't leave us in the end. That's precisely the type of contributions that one needs to hear. Thank you, dear, for allowing us to keep on enjoying them.

    Paul, I do believe (firmly) that one should have at least the power of choice, in life. Sexism very often reduces that possibility. That is a topic I would encourage to roll on ( ). Anyway, I'm gone for today. I'll keep on mis-typing and propiciating misunderstanding about my words tomorrow.

    Have fun, everyone!
    Incipiente, como las muelas del juicio.

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by la reine victoria View Post
    I spent six months working with Iranians in a small fishing village on the Persian Gulf. While the men laboured for us, earning some much-needed money, the women happily went about their work - caring for the children, fetching water, tending sheep and goats, cooking, washing, gathering huge bundles of wood for the fire, sweeping out their one-roomed, very sparsely furnished houses. To me, theirs was a blissful life. They had big, happy smiles on their faces and always the time to stop and have a chat with me when I wandered into the village.

    My boyfriend and I became close friends of the local doctor and were often invited to his home for dinner. He once made a very interesting comment - there wasn't a single person there who suffered from mental illness.

    I envied their way of life. Compared with all the ills of the developed world, I know which one I would choose.
    I am highly skeptical towards this pastoral idyll you're describing. Where I come from, a similar rural way of life based on subsistence agriculture and occasional wage work was prevalent in my grandparents' generation. Also, it was still widespread in my parents' generation, and could be found in some backward places until very recently. Consequently, I've heard many first-hand accounts of life in such an environment, and they're nowhere as pretty as you describe. Violence (both towards women and in other ways), extreme drunkenness, madness, poisoned relations between people, etc. were certainly more prevalent than in the modern society, and I won't even get into the material poverty and all its other ugly consequences.

    I would also point out that from all I've ever seen and heard, in backward rural environments such as the one you describe, a stranger (especially a foreigner!) is never treated as an insider to whom the internal issues in the community, either public or private ones, should be presented openly and honestly. People are also very skillful in making happy faces regardless of what's going on in their heads and in their lives when you're not looking.

    Admittedly, I've never been to Iran, but I'm pretty sure that what I've described are very universal human traits.

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    Re: Sexism in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Outsider View Post
    How do you know those women who smiled at you during the day weren't beaten up by their husbands at night?

    I don't believe that women are ever really content with being second-class citizens.
    Because they weren't veiled and showed no signs of being beaten. Why should they have been? The elders would soon have dealt severely with any wife-beater, anyhow. Rather a cynical question, Outsider.

    These women knew virtually nothing of the world beyond their village. There was no electricity when I was there, so no televisions. No newspapers; just a few transistor radios tuned to the Arab stations across the Gulf.

    Until they became used to my presence, they would stroke my blonde hair and touch my skin (to see if I were real), so unused were they to outsiders.

    There had been a community in this place for centuries and I doubt if what I saw of their way of life had changed very much. Simple, happy, fishing folk. I doubt that the words "second-class citizen" existed in their vocabulary.

    LRV

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