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Thread: Egli/lui, ella/lei, esso, essa

  1. #21
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Well, actually even if "egli" and "ella" are more correct, you'll hardly ever see or hear them. They aren't so much used anymore.

  2. #22
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Good, because it's a difficult enough language to learn as it is

    My book is from 1957 which probably explains why it's 'egli' all over..

  3. #23
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Quote Originally Posted by duckie View Post
    Good, because it's a difficult enough language to learn as it is

    My book is from 1957 which probably explains why it's 'egli' all over..
    Duckie - I think that is the case. All my Italian textbooks rarely mention "egli" at all. You'd be fine in just knowing that it is the "ultra" formal way of saying he. Lui and lei are ok!

  4. #24
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Quote Originally Posted by duckie View Post
    Good, because it's a difficult enough language to learn as it is

    My book is from 1957 which probably explains why it's 'egli' all over..
    I've express my opinion about that several times.
    If you use "egli" as subject nobody can tell you're wrong.
    At university, for example, during an exam, you cannot say "Lui è".
    Maybe it's because I've studied at "Liceo classico", but my teachers have always tried to make us speak good Italian.
    Claudine

  5. #25
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Quote Originally Posted by claudine2006 View Post
    I've express my opinion about that several times.
    If you use "egli" as subject nobody can tell you're wrong.
    At university, for example, during an exam, you cannot say "Lui è".
    Maybe it's because I've studied at "Liceo classico", but my teachers have always tried to make us speak good Italian.
    In my opinion, a foreign who's studying Italian needs to know they exist and what's their meaning, but why should they worry about using them, if we don't?

  6. #26
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWolf View Post
    In my opinion, a foreign who's studying Italian needs to know they exist and what's their meaning, but why should they worry about using them, if we don't?
    I understand your point of you. But I think it depends what level the learner wants to reach. You can speak Italian without using passato remoto/condizionale/congiuntivo, but you'll never speak good Italian.
    Claudine

  7. #27
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Quote Originally Posted by claudine2006 View Post
    I understand your point of you. But I think it depends what level the learner wants to reach. You can speak Italian without using passato remoto/condizionale/congiuntivo, but you'll never speak good Italian.
    I'm happy you want to defend Italian, but about that, we actually use, for example, the conditional in our speeches, but no one (except maybe in the Liceo Classico) uses "egli" or "ella" nowday. If someone did, I would be surprised.

  8. #28
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Thank you all for your help!

    Claudine, I would like to understand the grammatical rules of when to use which word, but the examples you provided confused me.. if you want to try to explain it in more detail I'll be happy to do my best to understand

    Meanwhile, I'm studying prepositions

  9. #29
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    In theory:
    Egli/ella are used only when they are the subject of the sentence. They mean he/she. Lui/lei are used when they are the object (only after the verb) and with preposition, like him/her.

    P.S. But you have still to study lo/la and gli/le (not the articles) .

  10. #30
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Quote Originally Posted by duckie View Post
    Thank you all for your help!

    Claudine, I would like to understand the grammatical rules of when to use which word, but the examples you provided confused me.. if you want to try to explain it in more detail I'll be happy to do my best to understand

    Meanwhile, I'm studying prepositions
    My advice:
    use EGLi and ELLA only at the beginning of a phrase in formal letters or documents.

  11. #31
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWolf View Post
    In theory:
    Egli/ella are used only when they are the subject of the sentence. They mean he/she. Lui/lei are used when they are the object (only after the verb) and with preposition, like him/her.

    P.S. But you have still to study lo/la and gli/le (not the articles) .
    Could you give an example in English of he/she being subject in one sentence and object in another? I might pick it up then.

    What do you mean lo/la gli/le not the articles? Are they used for other purposes than the definitive article?

  12. #32
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    What do you mean lo/la gli/le not the articles? Are they used for other purposes than the definitive article?
    lo/la - are also direct objects
    gli/le - are also indirect objects

  13. #33
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Ex.

    Ho comprato il giornale stammattina. Lo compro ogni giorno.

    Al mio papà piace leggere il giornale. Percíò gli do il mio quando finisco di leggerlo.

  14. #34
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    Re: lui/egli lei/ella

    Quote Originally Posted by duckie View Post
    Could you give an example in English of he/she being subject in one sentence and object in another? I might pick it up then.

    What do you mean lo/la gli/le not the articles? Are they used for other purposes than the definitive article?
    Ok:
    Io ho incrontato lei. I met her. (object)
    Ella ha incrontato me. She met me. (subject)
    Do questo number a lei. I give this number to her (indirect object)

    Now, this is the theory but you hardly ever hear this sentences in spoken Italian. You'll probably hear:

    (Io) l'ho incrontata. I met her. (object)
    (Lei) mi ha incrontato . She met me. (subject)
    (Io) le do questo number. I give her this number (indirect object)

    You'll probably study it after, but lo/la, gli/le aren't only the articles, but they are pronouns too. Lo/la (accusative) is an other way to say him/her (object), but they are placed before the verb, not after (ho incontrato lei / l'ho (la ho) incrontata), and gli/le same thing but it's the dative, so they mean "to him/her". (io do a lei / io le do)

  15. #35
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    Egli, ella, essi, esse for foreigners

    Living in Vienna and knowing people who learn Italian, I noticed, that here the words "egli, ella, essi" are not teached: they only theach to use "lui, lei, loro". I would like to ask to foreign people, if the learned the verbs using "lui" or "egli". And what do the Italians think about? Is it good to teach directly "lui" or it should be avoided?

    Please answer and correct me!

  16. #36
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    Re: Egli, ella, essi, esse For foreigners

    I was never taught egli, ella, and essi. I don't really even know what they are. I see them once in a while, and I remember hearing them for the first time from a nun.

    "to teach" is irregular in the past, quindi e' "taught" not "teached"
    Ciao.

    EDIT: Most of the Italian that I learned, I obtained from friends and experience rather than school. Maybe that is why I never learned egli, essi, and ella.
    >

  17. #37
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    Re: Egli, ella, essi, esse For foreigners

    Sono utili tutti e due secondo me, però all'inizio conviene fare delle frasi soltanto con 'lui, lei, loro', se no sarà un casino per loro :-) Communque si insegnano tutti e due!

  18. #38
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    Re: Egli, ella, essi, esse For foreigners

    Egli, ella, essi are the correct ones, but you can hear almost always in spoken language lui, lei, loro, that should be "object", as him, her, them... but when you write you should use the correct ones, expecially if you are not writing only to a friend for example,
    ciao
    alb

  19. #39
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    Re: Egli, ella, essi, esse For foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by gabrigabri View Post
    Living in Vienna and knowing people who learn Italian, I noticed, that here the words "egli, ella, essi" are not taught: they only teach the use of "lui, lei, loro". I would like to ask non-native speakers, if they learn verbs using "lui" or "egli". And what do the Italians think about? Is it good to teach "lui" or it should be avoided?

    Please answer and correct me!
    I'd LOVE to have a formal thread about these. I've seen them here on the forum and have been told that they are used formally - little else.

    Great idea!
    Thanks.
    Una mucca dice all'altra "Hai letto della "mucca pazza"? L'altra dice "Sì, ho sentito. Meno male che io sono un pinguino!

  20. #40
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    Re: Egli, ella, essi, esse For foreigners

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSoulSister View Post
    I was never taught egli, ella, and essi. I don't really even know what they are. I see them once in a while, and I remember hearing them for the first time from a nun.

    "to teach" is irregular in the past, quindi e' "taught" not "teached"
    Ciao.

    EDIT: Most of the Italian that I learned, I obtained from friends and experience rather than school. Maybe that is why I never learned egli, essi, and ella.

    Sorry

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