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Thread: Anche perché

  1. #21
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    Re: Anche perché

    Yeah, anche perché is good, but once again (and maybe it's an AE/Brian thing), it's just not as common/natural for me as anche perché.

    What I mean is, I don't want Italians to get the impression that they should go around saying not least because all the time because really, its frequency compared to anche perché is quite low.

    It should also be noted that anche perché is just one of a number of phrases using this particular meaning of anche (though in my experience it's the most common one).

    I'm not sure if anyone else saw this, but licinio in post #9 above said:

    Quote Originally Posted by licinio
    Anche perché is often used in Italian as a set phrase, also when you don't have other reasons to add.
    To me, this is an odd use of the word also in English, and I'm quite sure that what he meant to say was anche quando...

    Basically, anche is used to mean "one reason/situation/possibility/whatever (among multiple) being..." but the fact is that I just don't think we express this in English very often.

    In other words, we can find great translations that render the meaning, but if they are used with the same frequency and freedom as anche perché, they are going to sound unnatural.

    That's why I think especially because is the best choice--and indeed I would use it for all the examples above!--because it's probably the most common (at least for me) among all the translations suggested thus far and it renders the meaning quite well (even if not perfectly).
    "I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way."

  2. #22
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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by brian8733 View Post
    What I mean is, I don't want Italians to get the impression that they should go around saying not least because all the time because really, its frequency compared to anche perché is quite low.

    In other words, we can find great translations that render the meaning, but if they are used with the same frequency and freedom as anche perché, they are going to sound unnatural.
    Brian, 'one of the main/primary reasons being', which I suggested in my last post as a synonym for 'not least because' is very common in English.
    Last edited by You little ripper!; 9th May 2009 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Thank you Einstein!
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  3. #23
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    Re: Anche perché

    I think Charles' "mainly because" is the best one suggested so far.

    I'm just thinking that there's also a question of mentality; English speakers might not consider it so necessary to specify that there's more than one reason!

    However, as licinio says,
    Originally Posted by licinio
    Anche perché is often used in Italian as a set phrase, also when you don't have other reasons to add.
    so the "anche" could just be a filler.

    By the way, better "even when" than "also when" (but "even because" wouldn't work!).

  4. #24
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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by brian8733 View Post
    - one reason being (basically gives the correct sense, but like some of the other suggestions, it's simply not as common or natural in English as anche perché is in Italian).
    Would you ever say "one more reason being" ?
    That's what anche perchè means to me: for several reasons (which I may or may not mention or have mentioned) and for this other reason.

    Brevity is the soul of wit - Le persone intelligenti hanno il dono della concisione

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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulfromitaly View Post
    Would you ever say "one more reason being" ?
    That's what anche perchè means to me: for several reasons (which I may or may not mention or have mentioned) and for this other reason.
    It would sound silly in English unless we had already mentioned another reason.
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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by Einstein
    I think Charles' "mainly because" is the best one suggested so far.
    Yeah, mainly because and especially because are my favorites, even though they're still slightly different.

    Charles, one of the main (primary) reasons being (is) because is certainly common, but it's a mouthful and not used with the same freedom or flexibility as anche perché.

    I think we're really just going to have to be content with the fact that it boils down to a difference in languages/speakers. There are simply some things that certain languages/speakers express that others don't. Like Einstein said, it's a question of mentality. It also has a lot to do with what you're used to saying.

    As I mentioned above, I started saying things like especially because and mainly because in English with greater frequency because of Italian interference -- my brain was still working Italian-ly, even though most native English speakers never feel the need to express the idea of anche perché.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Costante View Post
    Not unless we had mentioned another reason previously. It would sound silly in English.
    Right..I guess it boils down to the fact we don't feel the need to be always so logic (well, I do..) so the fact we drop a hint about something we haven't previously mentioned sounds ok.

    Brevity is the soul of wit - Le persone intelligenti hanno il dono della concisione

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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by brian8733 View Post
    Charles, one of the main (primary) reasons being (is) because is certainly common, but it's a mouthful and not used with the same freedom or flexibility as anche perché.
    I know it's a mouthful but the only reason I suggested it is because it's a more common way of saying 'not least because' which is how the dictionary translates 'anche perché. 'Mainly/especially because' definitely sound more natural, but it's telling the listener that it is the principal reason why........... as opposed to one of the principal reasons why ..............., which is what 'not least because' means.
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    Re: Anche perché

    A pedantic aside here: everyone's saying "the reason is because...", but at school I was taught that this was a repetition and you should say "the reason is that...".
    I see the logic of this; also in Italian we don't say "il motivo è perché..." but "il motivo è che...". Does anybody agree?

  10. #30
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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by Einstein View Post
    ..in Italian we don't say "il motivo è perché..." but "il motivo è che...".
    Definitely

    Brevity is the soul of wit - Le persone intelligenti hanno il dono della concisione

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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by Einstein View Post
    A pedantic aside here: everyone's saying "the reason is because...", but at school I was taught that this was a repetition and you should say "the reason is that...".
    I see the logic of this; also in Italian we don't say "il motivo è perché..." but "il motivo è che...". Does anybody agree?
    Yes, you "should" say (or at least write) either The reason is that... or It is because..., but not both together. However, The reason is because... is very common in colloquial speech--I use it all the time and probably will never stop using it.

    But you can't always compare languages to see what's correct and what's not.

    In English we can say either The reason why I... or The reason that I... or even The reason I... --although some grammarians may condemn one or the other for whatever reason.

    In Italian it's Il motivo per cui... and not Il motivo perché... and yet in German it's (literally) The reason why... and not The reason that/for which...
    "I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way."

  12. #32
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    Re: Anche perché

    Brian, you're slightly confusing two forms. The reason why I... is different from what we're discussing and is perfectly correct. Here we're discussing The reason is...
    We can put the two together in the same sentence:

    I don't fly because I'm afraid of heights becomes:
    The reason why I don't fly is that I'm afraid of heights.

    I too am capable of saying The reason is because..., but when I'm writing I avoid it, especially on the forum as I don't want to miseducate the non-natives!

    But you can't always compare languages to see what's correct and what's not.
    Analogies don't prove anything, certainly, but where the rule does hold in both languages the comparison a useful illustration.

  13. #33
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    Re: Anche perché

    I wasn't confusing the two. I just wanted to point out (using the reason why/that) that you say something one way in Italian, another way in German, and either way in English*--simply to show that, yes, comparisons of constructions across languages can be helpful, but like you said, they don't really "prove" anything.

    *if you agree that motivo per cui and reason that (instead of for which) are basically the same.
    "I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way."

  14. #34
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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by brian8733 View Post
    ...if you agree that motivo per cui and reason that (instead of for which) are basically the same.
    I don't! The translation of il motivo per cui is the reason why.

    Il motivo per cui l'ho fatto è che...
    The reason why I did it is that...

    PS No, I'm thinking that we do say The reason I did it and this can become The reason that I did it. This then becomes confusing if we follow it with is that... So that's one of the reasons why people say The reason is because...
    Last edited by Einstein; 8th May 2009 at 6:08 PM.

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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by brian8733 View Post
    Yeah, mainly because and especially because are my favorites, even though they're still slightly different.
    That's a shame (!), because my clear favorite is your other suggestion: "one reason being". For me, it gets it most times. Certainly more times than "mainly" etc (ie referring to a "principle" reason).
    Last edited by GavinW; 8th May 2009 at 11:00 PM. Reason: refuso

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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by Einstein View Post
    A pedantic aside here: everyone's saying "the reason is because...", but at school I was taught that this was a repetition and you should say "the reason is that...".
    I see the logic of this; also in Italian we don't say "il motivo è perché..." but "il motivo è che...". Does anybody agree?
    I have no idea why I even put 'because' in the synonym I suggested as a substitute for 'not least because', because I wouldn't normally use it. It's probably also why it's a bit of a mouthful, Brian. I wouldn't even subtitute it with 'that'.

    I'm not coming over, one of the main reasons being (that) you've never invited me!
    You haven't been promoted, one of the main reasons being (that) you haven't really committed yourself!
    I'm not going out today, one of the main reasons being (that) it's raining.

    There are some conflicting opinions here on the use of 'the reason is because'.
    Last edited by You little ripper!; 9th May 2009 at 8:03 AM.
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    Re: Anche perché

    Sorry to carry this on probably past the point where it's useful - but whenever I've heard anche perche' I've translated it in my head as something like 'if only because' or 'if just for' or 'apart from anything else', if you see what I mean. It kind of seemed to me that the sense of anche perche' isn't necessarily that it's the main reason, just that it's a reason that stands on its own. Am I way off..?

    I'm not going out today, apart from anything else it's chucking it down.
    I think he's alright, if only because he's never done anything bad to me.
    One day I'm going to go to Italy, if only for the ice cream.

    Would these translate differently in Italian?
    Last edited by tomzenith; 9th May 2009 at 7:47 PM.
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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by tomzenith View Post
    Sorry to carry this on probably past the point where it's useful - but whenever I've heard anche perche' I've translated it in my head as something like 'if only because' or 'if just for' or 'apart from anything else', if you see what I mean. It kind of seemed to me that the sense of anche perche' isn't necessarily that it's the main reason, just that it's a reason that stands on its own. Am I way off..?

    I'm not going out today, apart from anything else it's chucking it down.
    I think he's alright, if only because he's never done anything bad to me.
    One day I'm going to go to Italy, if only for the ice cream.

    Would these translate differently in Italian?
    These are not bad at all! Our main difficulty has been in finding a universal translation, but you're probably right that in English we have specific phrases for the various cases.

  19. #39
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    Re: Anche perché

    "Yeah, mainly because and especially because are my favorites, even though they're still slightly different"

    "Si, mainly because e especially because sono le mie favorite,anche se sono un po' differenti"

    In my opinion this sentence by Brian contains the solution to the problem.

    In Anche se and anche perché , anche works the same way. So you, english speakers, should try to modify because exactly the same way as even modifies though.
    Last edited by effeundici; 15th May 2009 at 9:58 PM.
    Please, correct my English, even the smallest mistake. That would be very kind of you

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    Re: Anche perché

    Quote Originally Posted by effeundici View Post
    So you, english speakers, should try to modify because exactly the same way as even modifies though.
    I think that's easier said than done!
    Correzioni sono sempre benvenute!

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