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Thread: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

  1. #81
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    "Extreme beauty is unattractive" sounds like a bit of a of a contradiction. If I plotted attractiveness v. beauty on a graph, I'd assume a linear relationship, not a bell curve distribution. It's like you're saying being more beautiful makes you less attractive, at least after a certain point. (???)
    I am glad that you have understood my words.
    Your analysis is spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    I wholly disagree that beauty in ALL cultures is based ONLY on symmetry. There is no way that someone (let's say a woman) with really brittle, thin hair, blue skin, brown teeth infested with cavities, pus-filled pimples everywhere, sagging breasts to the floor, deep wrinkles all over, etc could be considered beautiful even if she is perfectly symmetrical. (???)
    Excellent uber extrapolation. I hope that this adds to your knowledge of the humanity of it all.

    OK. You got me. Beauty is based on being healthy and then symmetry.
    Sorry about that. I had assumed that as we were considering beauty that disease would not be an issue. Silly me.

    You will have to ensure that you include this caveat in the rest of your responses.

    .,,

  2. #82
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    What do you have to base "fashion models are actually freaks or mutants" on? I actually have a lot of respect for
    Tyra Banks for the way she reacted to magazines/tabloids calling her fat. I do not consider her a freak or a mutant.
    Their miniscule population.
    Gee Tyra sounds like a brick. How did she possibly survive such a base canard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    If you counted all the fashion models in the world and not just the famous ones, are you SURE there would be less of than them with people with Down's Syndrome or Aspberger's Syndrome?
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    A group of people comprising a very small part of a population does not automatically make them freaks.
    Yes it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    How do you know MOST suffer "stupifying health problems" as they age
    Because I am aware of biology and the effects of starving a pubscent body nd pumping it full of drugs to suppress menstruation and appetite.
    All of these people will suffer stupifying health problems ranging from kidney and liver disease to osteoporosis and heart failure with every carbuncle and bed sore in between.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    and MOST NEVER reproduce? There have been a handful of models to reproduce, like Laetitia Casta (who by the way is not all that thin), Heidi Klum, Kate Moss, Cindy Crawford, etc...
    Great, a handful is your argument to refute my claim that most do not reporduce.
    Do you know what is left in an equation once you have removed most? The answer is a handful.
    Do you know if this handfull actually made babies in the natural time honoured manner?
    How many just went out and bought a baby?
    How many underwent chemical therapy?
    How many had ova transplanted.
    What are your research tools?


    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    What do dogs have to do with anything?
    This would be just funny if you did not claim to be a native English speaker.
    This sounds like you are reaching to find something to be outraged about.
    I refuse to insult the intelligence of adult readers by trying to exlain this.
    If you really want to know send me a PM and I will respond in kind.

    .,,

  3. #83
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    I think people are making the assumption that all conventionally attractive people are ***holes (or just infested with negative characteristics).
    This arsehole doesn't think that putting a couple of *** in disguises base intent.
    What's the difference between an arsehole and a person infested with negative charactistics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    This is not true...attractive people can actually be nice!
    Yep and they can be arseholes infested with negative charactistics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    I don't think it's fair to compare statues to Shrek because they don't do anything.
    Unless my interpretation is grossly deformed or mutant like I will assume taht you are wrong yet again.
    I will await confirmation from alexacohen that she was not referring to a cartoon character but rather had failed to dot the i of shriek.
    It'll be her call but I know where I am going to put my money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    It's like saying you like asparagus better than flowers because you can eat them.
    Are not asparagus flowers?
    In any event I eat flowers all the time.

    M
    Last edited by .,,; 23rd April 2007 at 8:21 AM. Reason: to invert an ei to an ie

  4. #84
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Unless my interpretation is grossly deformed or mutant like I will assume taht you are wrong yet again.
    I will await confirmation from alexacohen that she was not referring to a cartoon character but rather had failed to dot the i of shriek.
    It'll be her call but I know where I am going to put my money.
    Robert, I can confirm that the only thing I meant is that people who are nothing but beautiful outside are exactly alike Greek statues. They think nothing, feel nothing and do nothing except look beautiful.
    And they will end up exactly like Greek statues are now: ruins.
    Alexa
    In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep. I am a platypus.

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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joca View Post
    Hi Jonquiliser:

    1) I would venture to say that you are probably confusing beauty and your feelings about beauty.

    2) I know, I know, it didn't help much, but again: if at least two persons find someone else beautiful, isn't this the beginning of objectivity?


    JC
    1) Agreed, but speaking about these "feelings" seems to me a little like speaking about God. It seems we have adjusted everything but what have we really understood? And then where should that "beauty" be if it didn't concern your "feelings" about it?

    2) Agreed but I'd prefer there to use the word "reality". It's just a beginning
    cause a "good reality" seems to require a good number of individuals.

    Bye.

  6. #86
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by ireney View Post
    Joca which two persons? I remember seeing a documentary about Bushmen and they find the quite beautiful tall, blond female of the shooting group quite ugly (and,as one said, not marriagable since it'd be a bother to find tnough food to feed such a tall woman). So, we have to male Bushmen discussing what is "objectively" beautiful to them. Then we get two modern Europeans. Then we use our time machine and get two European of any past century you wish. And two males from Hawai in the last century who liked (as I've read) their women quite Rubenesque.

    Which pair's opinion should we choose to form the base of objectivity?

    ...
    Well, that was a very extreme sample, wasn't it? I am afraid (but I may be wrong) that with the ongoing advance of globalization, such discrepancies can become more and more a rarity, if you see what I mean. It's obvious that a Bushman and an European have different values and reactions, but I would be too skeptical to believe that they can't share some basic feelings, either. Besides, it seems to me that one of the Bushmen isn't really concerned about beauty, he's being pragmatic, instead.

    Cheers,

    JC

  7. #87
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexacohen View Post
    Robert, I can confirm that the only thing I meant is that people who are nothing but beautiful outside are exactly alike Greek statues. They think nothing, feel nothing and do nothing except look beautiful.
    And they will end up exactly like Greek statues are now: ruins.
    Alexa
    Alexa:

    I am afraid I can't express this in words, let alone in English words, but doesn't this happen to you? Whenever you meet a beautiful person, I mean physically beautiful or attractive (I don't know which), can you prevent yourself from harbouring the wish that this person should also be internally and humanly beautiful? That would be almost like a miracle, wouldn't it?

    JC

  8. #88
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexacohen View Post
    Robert, I can confirm that the only thing I meant is that people who are nothing but beautiful outside are exactly alike Greek statues. They think nothing, feel nothing and do nothing except look beautiful.
    And they will end up exactly like Greek statues are now: ruins.
    Alexa
    Me again. Maybe it's all about envy, though I really don't want to sound offensive here. I am certainly included in the lot. I mean, on a certain level, we are "envious" of the beautiful, even if we don't realize it. So, if we can't find a physical flaw in a beautiful person, then we move next to the non-physical realm.

    Green grapes?

    Or something in the way of the peacock's paws. Do you know about it?

    JC

  9. #89
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    An example of someone infested with negative characteristics who is NOT an asshole: She has incredibly low self-esteem. She's jealous when others are very happy. She never talks to anyone unless they talk to them first, and even then, her responses are very short. She's very confused with what's going on in her life. She is not an asshole because she is not MEAN or malicious, but withdrawn, unhappy, isolated (all negative personality characteristics).

    Ahem... Robert... I can find beauty in a Greek tSatue too... but as for real men, these three you mention don't mean anything to me.
    I'd rather have as boyfriend...................... SHREK....
    Much uglier (than Greek statues), but much, much more interesting to live with!
    Aftel all, what could anyone do with a beautiful face if there is no more than the beautiful face?

    It is pretty obvious from what I have made blue that she meant Shrek. "Shriek" would have made so much sense though, right? Considering "rather," "uglier," and "more?"

    I meant "flowers" as in decorative flowers like lilies, tulips, carnations, roses, daises (which I am SURE you eat all the time). But I guess it was impossible to you and everyone in this thread to see that from the context, the comparison I was making. Shrek would be a more interesting person to live with even though he is uglier than Greek statues because he does things that an actual person would do (talk, move, laugh). Maybe it would make better sense to you if I said "meat" instead of "asparagus." Meat (like asparagus) is not as pretty as decorative flowers. But a very hungry person would rather have meat, because it is something that people normally eat (and something many people consider their favorite food). It's unfair to compare the two because they aren't meant for the same things. Pretty statues aren't meant to be companions, like Shrek can be (and is, to Fiona and the donkey). Pretty flowers aren't meant to be eaten, like meat is. Hopefully, the color coding has helped everyone to understand this.

    I DARE you to explain what dogs have to do with anything here and "insult the intelligence of adult readers." People want healthy dogs, but dogs aren't people. Dogs are PETS. They aren't subject to the stardards of modelling agencies. Obviously, modelling agencies will want people who are attractive, which usually includes being slim. Modelling agencies aren't interested in the future health of their models (which is changing), or their reproducing abilities which a person looking for a pet may consider. People don't want the same things out of dogs and models. Dogs are supposed to make nice pets. Models are supposed to support the fashion industry, make money, etc.

    I could go on about other things you said but that would be pointless, seeing that you're the way you are. And I'll admit, I was shocked by what you said in your posts, using words like "NEVER" and "ONLY" when your statements are obviously not true. There ARE pictures of models/actresses that aren't photoshopped to death out there, and they're bad. Symmetry is NOT the only factor in determining attractiveness. Even when a person is healthy AND symmetrical, she could have many wrinkles, many moles all over her face, chapped lips, no neck, saggy butt, saggy breasts and probably be considered unattractive by many (maybe even all) cultures. By the way, I is creary NOT an Native engrisch speeker.
    Last edited by Musical Chairs; 23rd April 2007 at 11:45 AM. Reason: one more thing

  10. #90
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    An example of someone infested with negative characteristics who is NOT an asshole: She has incredibly low self-esteem. She's jealous when others are very happy. She never talks to anyone unless they talk to them first, and even then, her responses are very short. She's very confused with what's going on in her life. She is not an asshole because she is not MEAN or malicious, but withdrawn, unhappy, isolated (all negative personality characteristics).
    A person who is jealous when others are very happy is one of the biggest arseholes in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    Ahem... Robert... I can find beauty in a Greek tSatue too... but as for real men, these three you mention don't mean anything to me.
    I'd rather have as boyfriend...................... SHREK....
    Much uglier (than Greek statues), but much, much more interesting to live with!
    Aftel all, what could anyone do with a beautiful face if there is no more than the beautiful face?

    It is pretty obvious from what I have made blue that she meant Shrek. "Shriek" would not have made sense.
    O.K. You got me. Alexa and I are even.
    I didn't read her post properly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    I meant "flowers" as in decorative flowers like lilies, tulips, carnations, roses, daises (which I am SURE you eat all the time). But I guess it was impossible to you and everyone in this thread to see that from the context, the comparison I was making. Shrek would be a more interesting person to live with even though he is uglier than Greek statues because he does things that an actual person would do (talk, move, laugh). Maybe it would make better sense to you if I said "meat" instead of "asparagus." Meat (like asparagus) is not as pretty as decorative flowers. But a very hungry person would rather have meat, because it is something that people normally eat (and something many people consider their favorite food). It's unfair to compare the two because they aren't meant for the same things. Pretty statues aren't meant to be companions, like Shrek can be (and is, to Fiona and the donkey). Pretty flowers aren't meant to be eaten, like meat is. Hopefully, the color coding has helped everyone to understand this.
    No it did nothing for me but give me eye strain.
    You see decorative flowers.
    I see amutated sexual organ of plants which, to follow your meat and potatoes example, remind me of a bull's penis or a cow's vagina in a jar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    I DARE you to explain what dogs have to do with anything here and "insult the intelligence of adult readers." People want healthy dogs, but dogs aren't people. Dogs are PETS. They aren't subject to the stardards of modelling agencies. Obviously, modelling agencies will want people who are attractive, which usually includes being slim. Modelling agencies aren't interested in the future health of their models (which is changing), or their reproducing abilities which a person looking for a pet may consider. People don't want the same things out of dogs and models. Dogs are supposed to make nice pets. Models are supposed to support the fashion industry, make money, etc.
    Irony.
    I was inferring that we should have higher standards for our children than for our pets.
    We try to ensure that dog breeds are not subject to the health issues that all but a handful of models will inevitably face.
    We should try to ensure that models are treated better than dogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    I could go on about other things you said but that would be pointless, seeing that you're the way you are. And I'll admit, I was shocked by what you said in your posts, using words like "NEVER" and "ONLY" when your statements are obviously not true. There ARE pictures of models/actresses that aren't photoshopped to death out there, and they're bad. Symmetry is NOT the only factor in determining attractiveness. Even when a person is healthy AND symmetrical, she could have many wrinkles, many moles all over her face, chapped lips, no neck, saggy butt, saggy breasts and probably be considered unattractive by many (maybe even all) cultures. By the way, I is creary NOT an Native engrisch speeker.
    I like saggy bums and saggy tits and my country is full of moles and every single wrinke on my saggy fifty year old body is earned and I deserve every single one of them.

    I was pretty much staying with the joke until your final bold underlined questionable statement.
    Were I to write to you in similar terms I would be accurately described as being a patronising bigot.

    .,,

  11. #91
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joca View Post
    Alexa:

    I am afraid I can't express this in words, let alone in English words, but doesn't this happen to you? Whenever you meet a beautiful person, I mean physically beautiful or attractive (I don't know which), can you prevent yourself from harbouring the wish that this person should also be internally and humanly beautiful? That would be almost like a miracle, wouldn't it?

    JC
    No, Joca, the trouble with me is that being absolutely myopic I never see people till they talk to me. So physical beauty doesn't mean anything at all. I just see a blurr...
    Alexa
    In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep. I am a platypus.

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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexacohen View Post
    No, Joca, the trouble with me is that being absolutely myopic I never see people till they talk to me. So physical beauty doesn't mean anything at all. I just see a blurr...
    Alexa
    It is not for me to say, Alexa, but I am also as shortsighted as a doorknob. That is why I am wearing glasses.

    JC

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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joca View Post
    I mean, on a certain level, we are "envious" of the beautiful, even if we don't realize it. So, if we can't find a physical flaw in a beautiful person, then we move next to the non-physical realm.

    Green grapes?
    This makes an awful lot of sense.

  14. #94
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joca View Post
    It is not for me to say, Alexa, but I am also as shortsighted as a doorknob. That is why I am wearing glasses.

    JC
    Off topic: a lot of people working with me do that. We just don't wear glasses at work, because we don't want to see people. We don't want to remember a face that belongs to a person who has insulted us.
    When we started working and we learnt that someone famous was coming, we all wanted to see him/her. We were disappointed every time. I've been shot on films, beside stars that carried on their faces one centimetre of make up. They weren't real. They did not have faces, but masks. And many, so many times, the famous beautiful people were neither beautiful without their make up, nor beautiful inside.
    Alexa
    In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep. I am a platypus.

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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxiogee View Post
    As a certain person around here is fond of saying, what proof have you got to show that any models "inevitably" face any health issues?
    Hi:
    See here.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/769290.stm

    And read this:
    Brazilian model Ana Carolina Reston died on November 14 from a generalized infection caused by anorexia. Her body-mass-index was well below that of the limit defined as starvation.
    Just type models and anorexia in your google bar. Let's talk about proofs afterwards.
    Alexa
    In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep. I am a platypus.

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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    I don't really understand why this discussion is veering towards models and their health. I thought this was about beauty. The vast majority of today's fashion models are anything but physically beautiful. They are tall, outlandish, exotic, bizarre, ultra-slim, etc., yes, but, aside from a few exceptions, not beautiful. Is there really any country or human society where the idea of female beauty is embodied in emaciated, flabby bodies and cadaverous countenances?

  17. #97
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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    I haven't got the least idea, Faranji. I'd rather stop this here and now.
    Alexa
    In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep. I am a platypus.

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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by faranji View Post
    I don't really understand why this discussion is veering towards models and their health. I thought this was about beauty. The vast majority of today's fashion models are anything but physically beautiful.
    Because they are what those who control the 'beauty business' (incorporating music, clothing, film, theatre and much more) decide shall be held up as the image of 'beauty' - and the gullible who buy into the business buy into the images and strive to emulate them.
    Last edited by ireney; 23rd April 2007 at 8:58 PM. Reason: PM to follow with the reasons for deleting

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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    I was, as the quotation marks highlight, looking for the evidence of "inevitably"
    Robert said nothing but the truth about modelling.
    As one of my younger sisters was a model who was afflicted by both anorexia and bulimia, and was shouted at unmercifully because she was not thin enough, and was put on extremely hard diets which included amphetamins by her employers, and whose health is ruined because of that, and will need medical care for the rest of her life I'd rather leave the subject here and now.
    Alexa
    Last edited by alexacohen; 23rd April 2007 at 6:49 PM.
    In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep. I am a platypus.

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    Re: A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

    Mod reminder:

    This thread seems to discuss everything that has to do with beauty, attraction, love, inner beauty...
    All this is very interesting, but it's not exactly what the first posts (remember that these are two threads merged into one) asked about:
    Quote Originally Posted by meeryanah View Post
    I was just wondering [..] what would be a beautiful man or a woman in your country.
    I'm aware that different people have different tastes, but in general, what would you say?
    Do men need to have muscles and do women need to be thin with big breasts, to be atractive to a wider number of people?
    Quote Originally Posted by Musical Chairs View Post
    How are beauty standards (for men and women) in your country? What traits are considered sexiest in your country (eyes, body, breasts, hair, height, weight, etc.) and why do you think that is?
    So, could we get back to this topic, please ?

    Thank you all.

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