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Thread: FR: "pas" without "ne" - omitting "ne" in casual negation

  1. #61
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    Re: EN:negation

    Quote Originally Posted by sunsail View Post
    Merci.What are the english translations of these?
    Je sais pas and Je ne sais pas mean the same, so they both usually translate in I don't know.
    That said, if you really want to render in English the colloquial side of je sais pas, maybe Don't know could work.
    Absence de contexte = Texte de sens abscons !

  2. #62
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    Re: FR: pas without ne - omitting ne in casual negation

    Ou "Dunno"
    Gwen a.k.a. NewG a.k.a. NeuG a.k.a. Néo pour les l'intimes - Please correct my mistakes

  3. #63
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    Re: FR: pas without ne - omitting ne in casual negation

    Quote Originally Posted by newg View Post
    Ou "Dunno"
    Oui !
    Absence de contexte = Texte de sens abscons !

  4. #64
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    Re: FR: pas without ne - omitting ne in casual negation

    Quote Originally Posted by newg View Post
    Ou "Dunno"
    I have doubts about this. The French generally show a greater distinction between the written language and the spoken language than do native speakers of English, according to linguist John McWhorter in his book The Power of Babel: A Natural History of Language. (He gives as an example of this the use in spoken French of on rather than nous for the second-person pronoun.) This leads me to think that both Don't know and I dunno would be inappropriate translations for Je sais pas, in most cases, while I don't know would be an appropriate translation for both Je sais pas and Je ne sais pas in speech and somewhat informal writing (which includes much newspaper journalism here in the US). Finally, I do not know would, of course be used to translate Je ne sais pas when it appears in very formal writing.

    Your thoughts on the subject?

  5. #65
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    Re: FR: pas without ne - omitting ne in casual negation

    mais regarde, ascoltate vient du québec, où personne (ou plutôt 99%) ne dit «ne». Donc «ne» est plus soigné là-bas
    mais tu viens de suisse, où l'on parle le français européen, donc «ne» est plus courant (on dit «ne» 10% du temps).
    et à propos, est-ce qu'on peut omettre le «ne» dans le phrase ci-dessus «personne ne dit»
    Veuillez corriger mes erreurs de français!

  6. #66
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    Re: FR: pas without ne - omitting ne in casual negation

    Le "ne" peut toujours être omis dans le français parlé, y compris dans une phrase comme "Personne ne dit" -- par contre, ce serait difficile à l'oral de distinguer entre l'absence et la présence de "ne' dans cette phrase, parce que le schwa à la fin du mot "personne" peut également être prononcé ou omis (presque toujours omis en français québécois, mais prononcé régulièrement en français du Midi, par exemple...).

  7. #67
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    Re: When to use ne...pas in spoken French

    Quote Originally Posted by Punky Zoé View Post
    Yes, I do agree and I would say I make it more fréquently than dropping the "ne".
    Probably, a question of regional accent, and the way we do pronounce all syllables around here.

    Moreover, I would say than in work related context, I generally pronounce the "ne". It is only with relatives that I pronounce sometimes "je sais pas", "ch'ais pas" or "je n'sais pas".
    I've just read that whole post, and I would add:

    I do not pronounce J'sais like Ch'sais. I make a difference.

    When speaking, I use:
    J'sais pas (rarely)
    Je sais pas (very rarely)
    Je n'sais pas (often)
    Je ne sais (often albeit very formal)
    Je n'sais (very often)
    J'ne sais pas (very often)
    Je ne sais pas (rarely, formal speech)

    When writing only Je ne sais pas of course.

    Ok that was for pronouns.

    With nouns, when speaking, I use 50% noun + ne +verbe + pas and 50% noun + verb + pas.

    With expletive ne, I always use it in such sentences: avant qu'il ne vienne or je n'ai que.

    About negative ne without pas, I use 50% je ne + verb and 50% Je ne + verb + pas. (percentage of ne + verbe increases with savoir and pouvoir).

    Am I so different?
    Last edited by Lacuzon; 3rd September 2010 at 9:18 AM.
    Membre fondateur du FluRPSIS.

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