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Thread: FR: y / là / là-bas

  1. #1
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    FR: I will be there / I'm going there - y / là(-bas)

    Hello...
    I think the proper way to say: I will be there is...Je serai la. Buy why not...J'y serai. When do you use "Y" instead of "la" when referring to "there"? I'm going there is : J'y vais. Why not Je vais la. Thanks for the help!!!!

    Chuck

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    Re: "la" or "y" I'm confused.

    "Je serai là/là-bas" (depending on context) can be replaced with "J'y serai", just a matter of style IMHO
    "J'y vais" can be replaced with "Je vais là-bas" since là-bas corresponds to "(over) there", to a place far from who's speaking (you cannot but "go" somewhere else ); you cannot say "Je vais là" since "là" corresponds to "here"

    Hope it helps,

    DDT
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 30th March 2014 at 12:55 PM. Reason: citation of previous post removed to save space
    Nescio ergo sum...pickle my altimeter!

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    Re: "la" or "y" I'm confused.

    I think that j'y vais means I'm going ...there (to a place that has been previously mentioned or that is implied)), but how does correspond to here if one were to say "Je vais là"? I also feel that one cannot say "Je vais là", I just don't understand how là could mean here.
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 30th March 2014 at 12:55 PM. Reason: citation of post removed to save space

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    Re: "la" or "y" I'm confused.

    I think that la can mean both here and there. Je suis la...I am here. Il est la...he is here. Maybe I'm wrong. Chuck

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    Re: "la" or "y" I'm confused.

    Well... DDT is not perfectly right...
    I'll be there can translate both with "là or y" except in some cases, where one is better than the other.
    don't know if there is a rule, i guess that if you are lasting, preferred use of là, and if you are moving, preferred use of Y.
    (but both seems correct)

    -Demain, je compte sur ton aide.
    -ne t'inquiète pas, je serai là.

    -n'oublie pas, rendez-vous devant la gare à 7 heures et demie.
    -ne t'inquiète pas, j'y serai.

    I'm going there:
    -vas au marché (m'acheter des légumes.)
    -d'accord, j'y vais. (not je vais là)

    Showing something on a map: je vais là (not j'y vais) because là means here
    Here = ici, là and there = là-bas

    j'y vais pour faire quelquechose.
    je vais là pour faire quelquechose. (in fact, -bas is dropped)
    common use, but I don't know if it is perfect french.

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    Re: "la" or "y" I'm confused.

    Yes I agree, exactly as you said
    j'y vais pour faire quelquechose.
    je vais là pour faire quelquechose. (in fact, -bas is dropped

    And this is what DDT meant by là as là-bas.

    In Je vais là, là means here and not there, which 'there' here would be 'là-bas''.



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    FR: y / là / là-bas

    I know the usuage of "y" and "là" in the sentence structure (generally "y" precedes the verb and "là" is put after, no?) but I was wondering if one is more formal or better to use in certain contexts. For me, I tend to always use "là" because it is less confusing!

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    Re: y & là

    No one is more formal than the other, but 'y' refers to an already mentioned word.

    -Dois-je mettre la nourriture sur la table?
    -
    Non, je l'y ai déjà mise.

    'Là' refers to an unmentioned, unspecified location. You can also use 'là' with 'bas', making 'là-bas' (over there).

    -Ne vas pas ! Ces chiens te mourdront.
    -De quoi tu parles? Où sont ces chiens méchants?
    -Dans le jardin.
    -Vraiment? Alors, je n'y irai pas.
    (OR... Je n'irai pas là-bas.)

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    Re: y & là

    By the way, 'y' sounds like 'i' (like E in peek) "J'y" would sound like "jee", and "y irais" would sound like "ee eeray". Also, 'y', in a sentence goes right after the pronoun, even before 'en', its buddy.

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    Re: y & là

    Quote Originally Posted by Bléros View Post
    Also, 'y', in a sentence goes right after the pronoun, even before 'en', its buddy.
    It doesn't have to come directly after the pronoun in a sentence.
    If direct object (le, la, les) comes before the verb then the direct object comes before the y or en. Also if a direct object (me, te, se, nous, vous) is before the verb then it would precede the other direct object and also the y or en.

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    Re: y & là

    Quote Originally Posted by Bléros View Post
    No one is more formal than the other, but 'y' refers to an already mentioned word.
    -Ne vas pas par ! Ces chiens te mordront.
    -De quoi tu parles? (
    better : de quoi parles-tu ?) Où sont ces chiens méchants?
    -Dans le jardin.
    -Vraiment? Alors, je n'y irai pas.
    (OR... Je n'irai pas là-bas.)
    We don't say "je n'y irais pas"... "y" doesn't match with the vowel "i".
    In that case we avoid to use a pronoun. We drop it or we use the complete phrase :
    - Alors je n'irai pas !
    - Alors je n'irai pas dans ce jardin !


    I wouldn't say : "je n'irai pas là-bas."
    là-bas : is a place far from here (or far in my mind)
    "Mon ami est parti en Amérique.
    - Ah bon ? Qu'est-ce qu'il fait là-bas ?"

    "Où est Paul ?
    - Au fond du jardin
    - Qu'est-ce qu'il fait là-bas ?"

    Another little thing : we usually have rather to replace objects than other complements : (but of course, it is not wrong to do it)
    - Est-ce que j'apporte les plats à table ?
    - Non, c'est fait, je les ai déjà apportés.
    ("à table" is obvious so we don't repeat it)

    They are really little things but I think you can speak a better french if you know these tricks !


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    Re: FR: y & là

    So you're saying to omit the "y" when it proceedes a vowel, or is it jus the vowel "i"? Also, I've heard the "là-bas" thing before; I'd equate it to the English "over there."

    And maybe4ever, if you see this, could you please explain your comment further:
    Quote Originally Posted by maybe4ever View Post
    It doesn't have to come directly after the pronoun in a sentence.
    If direct object (le, la, les) comes before the verb then the direct object comes before the y or en. Also if a direct object (me, te, se, nous, vous) is before the verb then it would precede the other direct object and also the y or en.
    It's been 3 years since I've taken a proper French course, this went a little over my head

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    Re: FR: y & là

    Quote Originally Posted by itka View Post
    I wouldn't say : "je n'irai pas là-bas."
    Why wouldn't là-bas be suitable? To me it is a good alternative to y:

    — Es-tu déjà allé à Paris ?
    — Non, j'irai là-bas l'année prochaine.

    Anyway I agree that it is often possible to simply drop that y:

    — Es-tu déjà allé à Paris ?
    — Non, j'irai l'année prochaine.

    Quote Originally Posted by star5432 View Post
    So you're saying to omit the "y" when it proceedes a vowel, or is it jus the vowel "i"?
    Just the vowel i because of the hiatus…

    Il y irait s'il le pouvait. (hiatus) → Il irait s'il le pouvait.
    Il y est bien.
    Il y a un lac devant ma maison.

    Anyway I'm not sure it is always possible to omit it…

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    Re: FR: y & là

    Quote Originally Posted by Maître Capello View Post
    Why wouldn't là-bas be suitable? To me it is a good alternative to y:
    — Es-tu déjà allé à Paris ?
    — Non, j'irai là-bas l'année prochaine.
    So... you agree with me ... I told that "là-bas" was fitting for a place far from here... I assumed that the garden Bléros spoke about was not so far...


  15. #15
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    Re: FR: y & là

    Quote Originally Posted by itka View Post
    So... you agree with me ... I told that "là-bas" was fitting for a place far from here... I assumed that the garden Bléros spoke about was not so far...
    To me it doesn't need to be far… In other words, là-bas would also be fine for the garden example even if that garden is very close.

    In short, as suggested by Star5432, I think là-bas is indeed very similar to over there

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    Re: FR: y & là

    Alors là, ça m'inquiète !
    Si tu es dans la chambre d'un appartement, est-ce que tu pourrais dire :
    «Les assiettes sont dans la cuisine, je vais là-bas les chercher» ?
    Si oui, alors c'est un suissisme !

    Mais comme je l'ai dit au début, comme toujours, il y a une possibilité d'intention stylistique du locuteur. Je peux considérer qu'un lieu géographiquement proche est loin dans mon esprit ou inversement...


  17. #17
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    Re: FR: y & là

    Quote Originally Posted by itka View Post
    Alors là, ça m'inquiète !
    Si tu es dans la chambre d'un appartement, est-ce que tu pourrais dire :
    «Les assiettes sont dans la cuisine, je vais là-bas les chercher» ?
    Si oui, alors c'est un suissisme !
    Non, je ne le dirais pas… Mais je ne dirais pas non plus :

    Les assiettes sont dans la cuisine, je vais les y chercher.

    N.B.: Je ne dis pas que ce y est faux, puisqu'il est correct, mais je ne dirais pas cette phrase spontanément…

    Mais comme je l'ai dit au début, comme toujours, il y a une possibilité d'intention stylistique du locuteur. Je peux considérer qu'un lieu géographiquement proche est loin dans mon esprit ou inversement...
    En effet !

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    Re: FR: y & là

    Quote Originally Posted by Maître Capello View Post
    Non, je ne le dirais pas… Mais je ne dirais pas non plus :
    Les assiettes sont dans la cuisine, je vais les y chercher.
    Là, je suis bien d'accord, moi non plus.
    Je crois que l'enseignement du français-langue-étrangère fait une trop large place aux remplacements des compléments par Y (voir les exercices que font nos correspondants).

    En français, on ne remplace pas tant de choses que ça par Y...


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    FR: je serais là(-bas) / j'y serais

    Je serais là ou J'y serais?

    Hello

    I would like to know if two these expression are correct in French. is there any difference between them?

    Thanks a lot/Merci beaucoup
    Last edited by Maître Capello; 30th March 2014 at 12:53 PM. Reason: original title moved to the body of this post

  20. #20
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    Re: Je serais là ou J'y serais?

    They are both grammatically possible:

    Je suis à ... => J'y suis => J'y serais
    Je suis là => Je serais là

    However they are different. "Je suis là" normally means either:

    1. I am physically here, in this place. Ie: "T'es où?" "Je suis là!" (Where are you?/I'm here)
    or
    2. Figuratively - I am there for you, I will support you in times of trouble.

    J'y suis is less common, I think. Aside from being a fixed expression meaning "I've worked it out", you might want to use it in occasions like this:

    "Tu vas où?" "Je vais à l'école, j'y serai pendant un moment" (Where are you going? / I'm going to school, I'll be there for a while).

    You can extend these sentences to the conditional tense if you like..
    Nimm den Ring vom Finger denn ich will den Ring zurück!

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