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Thread: Kinds of walls

  1. #21
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Quote Originally Posted by jmartins View Post
    Tapia: an outdoors wall closing a property with no roof.
    Es muy curioso que las paredes oigan o tengan oídos y que los que no oyen nada estén sordos como tapias
    Pero bueno, en inglés, a quienquiera que escuche conversaciones ajenas sin estar invitad@ a ello, se le caen las cornisas. Tiene mucho juego/jugo, la arquitectura auditiva

  2. #22
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    in Tagalog:

    Wall - Pader
    Ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika ay higit pa ang amoy sa mabaho at malansang isda. - Jose P. Rizal

  3. #23
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Quote Originally Posted by elroy View Post
    Assuming that parede means the same thing as pared in Spanish, a parede is exactly what you have just described as a Wand.

    I wasn't contesting your Mauer-related expertise, but I think perhaps you have misunderstood the meaning of parede.
    Well now, this is interesting because if parede means what I have described as Wand then of course in German it would be like you're saying.
    In this case a general misunderstanding is involved as I thought that parede is by definition a wall not bordering on the outside of a house.

  4. #24
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Perhaps it was I who did not explain the idea well enough. The basic distinction is between walls that are a part of the structure of a house (or other kind of building), which we call paredes, and "free" walls that enclose or divide open spaces, which we call muros. A muro can be adjacent to a house, but not a part of it. (Unless it's something like the small wall on the edge of a balcony; that might get called a muro -- but also a parede.)

    I hope this makes it clearer.
    Deuparth gwaith yw ei ddechrau.

  5. #25
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Outsider, you have made it all much clearer as I may have been confusing in my own understanding of the usage of the words muro and pared in Spanish

    I would really appreciate it if other Spanish-speakers from all over Spain and the Americas would submit their viewpoints, for my own sake, for the sake of this thread, and for the sake of WR especially

    Circles, circumferences and spheres are all round, so are smileys

  6. #26
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Outsider View Post
    Perhaps it was I who did not explain the idea well enough. The basic distinction is between walls that are a part of the structure of a house (or other kind of building), which we call paredes, and "free" walls that enclose or divide open spaces, which we call muros. A muro can be adjacent to a house, but not a part of it. (Unless it's something like the small wall on the edge of a balcony; that might get called a muro -- but also a parede.)

    I hope this makes it clearer.
    It certainly does, thanks a lot!

    And another thing just came to my mind, another word for city wall. So in German we have:

    - 'Mauer'
    = more or less 'muro' (where 'Zwischenmauer' would be defined as one not being an outside wall, while 'Mauer' could be both an outside and an inside wall and also a wall being adjacent to a house without being part of it: 'Mauer' being the hyperonym, 'Zwischenmauer' the hyponym), but our 'Mauer' also can be part of the building: 'Mauer' is a word with a very broad meaning indeed; even though you usually would drive a nail into a 'Wand' to hang up a picture you also can hammer it into the 'Mauer' even though in the latter case this would be associated with the construction of a building (the work of a mason) rather than the purpose of decorating the walls

    - 'Wand' = more or less 'parede' while mainly used for walls at which you look from the inside of a room (you hang up pictures on the Wand, you pant a Wand in whatever colour etc.); also you could use Wand for parts of furniture and other meanings; and my German dictionary also states that Wand may be used in the sense of Mauer (that is, Mauer as the thing a mason builds) which sounds strange to my ears but may (probably) be widely used in Germany, that I don't know; one saying probably makes clear the meaning of Wand: 'die eigenen vier Wände' is signifying 'home sweet home' really (literally: within your own four walls, according to my dictionary also - idiomatically - possible in English): Wand is the thing you live in, while Mauer is the thing you build (that is, Mauer is referring more to the aspect of construction while Wand refers more to the thing being part of our lifestyle)

    - 'Wall' = more or less 'muralha' (and corresponding to English 'wall'), but if you call a defensive structure Wall what you have in mind is more like a dam made out of earth (or earth plus stones), or probably partly earth, partly stone wall (probably with other defensive structures like palisades attached to it); anyway, it is possible to refer to a defensive wall with German 'Wall', more common however would be 'Stadtmauer' (which definitely has to be a wall made of stone)

    So even though German 'Mauer - Wand - Wall' is partly corresponding to Portughese 'muro - parede - muralha' the terms seem to vary considerably in meaning.

  7. #27
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Thank you very much for that detailed and interesting reply.
    Deuparth gwaith yw ei ddechrau.

  8. #28
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Another words in Italian:
    a dam: diga
    "if you call a defensive structure Wall what you have in mind is more like a dam made out of earth (or earth plus stones), or probably partly earth, partly stone wall": Terrapieno, Aggere or Barbacane (maybe barge-kenning in Englih). This words doesn't indicate exactly the same thing)
    palisade: palizzata
    wooden fence: staccionata, steccato, stecconata (staccionata, steccato, stecconata have some very little differences in meaning)

  9. #29
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol View Post
    - 'Wand' = more or less 'parede' (...) and my German dictionary also states that Wand may be used in the sense of Mauer (that is, Mauer as the thing a mason builds) which sounds strange to my ears but may (probably) be widely used in Germany (...)
    As I cannot edit my own post any more: this thread suggests that indeed in Germany (in Germany-German, that is) 'Wand' seems to be used also for what to me (in Austrian German) rather should be called 'Mauer'; or at least that some Germans prefer this use.

    So the distinction of German 'Wand' and 'Mauer' does not seem to be so straightforward if you include the whole German speaking area.

  10. #30
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Outsider View Post
    Portuguese distinguishes between:
    parede: an inner wall that is an integral part of a building;
    muro: an outside wall used for separation between properties, estates or fields, not part of the building itself;
    muralha: a defensive wall, like a city wall

    I checked that Spanish makes the same tripartite distinction: pared, muro, muralla. But in English the basic word is the same in all cases, wall.

    I'm curious to know if other languages make these distinctions too, or other distinctions, between kinds of walls.

    Thanks in advance.
    Tagalog:*Parede/inner wall= Dingding/pader **Muro/outside wall= Tarangka/bakod ***Muralha/defensive wall= Muog
    deKamatodeNah TeKatenggesan Ketam

  11. #31
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    In Greek:

    «Τείχος» ('tixos, n.): The defensive wall of a city/castle. From the Classical neuter noun, «θεῖχος» ('tʰeixŏs), later, «τεῖχος» ('teixŏs)--> fortification, city-wall. PIE base *dheigh-, to form, build.
    «Τοίχος» ('tixos, m.): The inner wall that is an integral part of a building. From the Classical masculine noun «τοῖχος» ('toixŏs)--> wall of a house or enclosure. A derivation of «τεῖχος». PIE base *dheigh-, to form, build.
    «Φράκτης» ('fraktis, m.) and colloquially «φράχτης» ('fraxtis, m.): An outside wall used for separation between properties, estates or fields. From the Classical masculine noun «φράκτης» ('pʰrāktēs)--> init. sluice with gates, later, fence, a barrier or a boundary between properies/estates. With obscure etymology.
    «Προμαχώνας» (proma'xonas, m.): The breastwork (a quickly constructed wall, usually breast-high for defence), also, the embattlement. From the Classical masculine noun «προμαχεών» (prŏmăxĕ'ōn)--> battlement. Compound, preposition and prefix «πρὸ» (prŏ)--> before, in front of + verb «μάχομαι» ('măxŏmæ, 'maxome in the modern language)--> quarrel, wrangle, fight (with unknown etymology).
    «Τάπια» ('tapça, f.)--> battlement. An Arabic loan word (تعبئة , ta'bya) via Ottoman Turkish.
    Last edited by apmoy70; 6th December 2011 at 2:19 PM. Reason: Remembered «προμαχώνας»
    Les Grecs sont étonnants dans l'adversité - François Pouqueville

  12. #32
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Dutch: muur, muur, muur, I'd say, but one can say binnenmuur (inside wall, in-between wall), wal perhaps (fortification walls, but they are often not in stone), or vestingen [lit. settlements, fixations], the surrounding walls of a fortified town along with water (Vauban).

  13. #33
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Catalan:
    paret - a generic wall. Vulgar Latin parēte.
    mur - a defensive wall, load-bearing wall, or the external wall of a building. Latin mūru.
    muralla - a defensive wall, a wall enclosing a vegetable garden. Latin mūrālĭa.
    envà - a thin wall separating two rooms. Unknown etymology?
    tàpia - a wall made with mud bricks. Pre-roman, uncertain etymology (I've read Arabic etymology has been discarded).
    Last edited by Favara; 30th December 2011 at 11:36 PM.
    /fa'vaɾa/

  14. #34
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Oh, yes, unfortunately many langauges have more words for one Hungarian, so it's quite difficult for us to learn them.
    We say for everything: fal
    [ɒkinɛk humorɒ vɒn, mindɛnˤtud, ɒkinɛk niŋʧ, mindɛnrɛ ke.pɛʃ]

  15. #35
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Swedish:
    Vägg
    - the walls of a house, either innervägg - inner wall inside the house, or yttervägg - outer wall, outside of the house, can be either stone or wood
    Mur - the free-standing (stone)wall around a garden or house, but it can also be used about the outer stone walls of a building such as a castle or cathedral
    Ringmur, stadsmur - a wall around a city

    Stainvast - the Gutnic/Gotlandic word for the traditional limestone walls on the island of Gotland, such as this: http://tinyurl.com/aoweveu
    "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is grammatically correct but semantically nonsensical

  16. #36
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    vaeli (fence, mostly referring the one made around the house/garden with sticks and wood)
    suvar(wall inside the house)
    araN(walls around forts, that which protects)
    mathil(a raised platform)

  17. #37
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    Also in hebrew:
    for the second: מחיצה\חוצץ /x/otzetz/me/x/itza.
    All the seats are taken in the parliament of fools!

  18. #38
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    How interesting to see that some languages refer to some kind of key word like wall/ mu(u)r, whereas others seem to consider them as separate concepts. But that would be a topic to be explored at EHL, I guess.

  19. #39
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    Re: Kinds of walls

    The Swedish word vägg is related to words such as to twine or to weave, as the first walls were just made of tree branches twined together to give some kind of protection against the weather. By the time people up here learned to build houses with stone walls they started using the word mur about those walls.
    "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is grammatically correct but semantically nonsensical

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