1. alexanderliverpool New Member

    London
    English
    How do I say in an essay 'This is an example of...' having mentioned the 'this' in the previous sentence? Do I have to put an accent on the first 'e', like 'ésto es un ejemplo de...' ??? Thanks for your help!
     
  2. Adelaida Péndelton

    Adelaida Péndelton Senior Member

    Madrid
    Spanish - Spain
    No, "esto" never has an accent: RAE.
     
  3. kbck777 Senior Member

    American English
    Treblinka is right. even though you may have learned differently (i was taught that when Esto functioned as a noun you needed an accent, and when it functioned as an adjective you don't) recently however the people that make major changes to the spanish language decided this rule was unneccesary. Technically i think you can put an accent over it, you just don't have too.
     
  4. aldonzalorenzo

    aldonzalorenzo Senior Member

    New Jersey, US
    castellano de España
    kbck you're mixing esto and este. Este is as you say: before -and all my life- we wrote éste when it was a pronoun (e.g. éste es mi perro) and este when it was an adjective (e.g. este perro es mío). Now they've changed the rules and they reccomend not to put an accent.
    But esto has had never accent, because it is always a pronoun (e.g. esto me pertenece, but you can't say esto perro...)
     
  5. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    "(i was taught that when Esto functioned as a noun you needed an accent, and when it functioned as an adjective you don't)"

    Yes, I wanted to ask when does 'esto' act like a noun. If it does, you should be able to have an article before it: "el esto, un esto", or an adj. following, but that never happens.

    saludos
     
  6. kbck777 Senior Member

    American English
    éste was the word that I had had on my mind, and, by chance, Aldonzalorenzo already shared with me his two cents on the mistake.
     
  7. Lurrezko

    Lurrezko Senior Member

    Junto al mar
    Spanish (Spain) / Catalan
    Her two cents, actually;)
     
  8. JB

    JB Senior Member

    Santa Monica, CA, EEUU
    English (AE)
    If you check the WR Dictionary or Search Engine, you will find prior threads on this. Basically, the rule (except for "esto") was accent mark on the demonstrative pronoun, no accent mark on the adjective (to distinguish them).
    The rule now is that that accent mark is optional, and recommended when useful to avoid possible ambiguity. I usually use it, except when I am lazy, because I never know when something clear to me might be ambiguous to the reader, and it doesn't hurt.

    As already pointed out, "esto" has never had an accent mark, as it is never an adjective.
     
  9. aldonzalorenzo

    aldonzalorenzo Senior Member

    New Jersey, US
    castellano de España
    Gracias por aclarárselo :). Y yo que pensaba que aldonza era claramente mujer... Se ve que se quedan con lorenzo.
    Me voy a cambiar el alias a catalina: al sol le llaman lore lorenzo y a la luna luna catalina lina...
     
  10. jgalaz Junior Member

    Mexican Spanish
    What about THE PLURAL form of "esto" (this) or of "this" (these)?

    For example, although you cannot say "Esto perro", you CAN say "Estos perros" (I guess in this case "estos" is really plurar for "este").

    So then, is the following correct?:

    "Los perros ladran en la noche. Éstos se alarman cuando pasan desconocidos por el callejón."
     
  11. SevenDays Senior Member

    Spanish
    Yes, that's correct. Éstos is the pronoun (Éstos se alarman); estos, de adjective (estos perros).
     
  12. _SantiWR_ Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    I suppose it could be considered correct as a historical form, but demonstrative pronouns no longer carry an accent mark.
     
  13. SevenDays Senior Member

    Spanish
    We've talked about this ad nauseam, but it should be said that those of us who still use accents marks with demonstrative pronouns don't see it as a historical form.
    Cheers
     
  14. Lurrezko

    Lurrezko Senior Member

    Junto al mar
    Spanish (Spain) / Catalan
    La propuesta académica ha tenido un éxito desigual, según parece.

    Un saludo
     
  15. Cenzontle

    Cenzontle Senior Member

    English, U.S.
    Meanwhile, once we settle the matter of the accent mark, the question remains:
    How should alexander say "This is an example of..."
    I compared three options on the Google Books Ngram Viewer:
    (1) Éste es un ejemplo (medium frequency)
    (2) Este es un ejemplo (most frequent)
    (3) Esto es un ejemplo (least frequent)
    I read option (3) as "This whole idea, all this, is an example of..."
    I read (1) and (2) as "This one, this example, is an example of..."
    In other words, in (1) and (2), at the moment of writing the word for "This",
    the writer already knows that it refers to a masc.sing. "ejemplo".
    As noted elsewhere, the Royal Academy still permits, but no longer requires, the accent mark on "este" as a pronoun,
    but recommends it where there could be ambiguity about whether it's a pronoun or an adjective.
    (It takes some work to contrive those ambiguous sentences.)

    If the accent was required in the past, but recently made optional,
    then why does the frequency of the accent take an upswing, beginning around 1990?
    The answer (I assume this was explained to me--the idea is not originally mine) is that
    the accent was not required on uppercase letters in the past--a difficulty for some typesetters.
    But with the advent of computer fonts, the ÁÉÍÓÚ became more accessible.
     
  16. _SantiWR_ Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    I rather think that, according to the current guidelines, este is always written without an accent mark (recent development I reckon). As it's been demonstrated, some people make a point of ignoring such recommendation, but I don't think it's meant to be "optional".
     
  17. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    I believe we are pretty pissed off at the RAE for changing its mind about the accent marks, and now we write them in on purpose... :rolleyes:
     
  18. aloofsocialite

    aloofsocialite modrageous!

    San Francisco / Oakland, CA
    English - USA (California)
    I had this conversation once with a professor at Berkeley. "A mí me da igual lo que diga la RAE". Incidentally, she was Mexican. :D
     
  19. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    My feelings, exactly...
     

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