διπλό σύμφωνο - what kind of consonant is it?

Discussion in 'Ελληνικά (Greek)' started by Άσχημη Κούκλα, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Άσχημη Κούκλα

    Άσχημη Κούκλα New Member

    Serbian
    Hello guys,
    Please, help me, I have some problems with grammatical terms, I don't know how to translate them into English.

    The first question is: what kind of consonant is "διπλό σύμφωνο"? Does it refer to double consonants like "tt" in "settle" or is it something else?
    Here is an example: "...παρατηρούμε ότι τα δίπλα κ, π, τ προφέρονται σαν απλά ακολουθουμενα από δασύ πνεύμα..."
    Another problem is "δασύ πνεύμα" is it aspiration? :confused:
    P.S. It would be great if you could also tell me how to translate "απλό" in this context, is it simply a "simple consonant" or what?

    P.S.2 :D Thank you VERY much in advance! <3 :)
     
  2. Perseas Senior Member

    Athens - GR
    Greek
    In Greek κκ, λλ, ββ etc are called όμοια σύμφωνα (double consonants). We call διπλά ξ and ψ.

    "...παρατηρούμε ότι τα διπλά κ, π, τ προφέρονται σαν απλά ..." : in this case I think by διπλά are meant (in a broader meaning) 2 identical consonants: κκ, ππ, ττ, μμ, ρρ, σσ, ττ, νν, ββ. They are pronounced as a single sound: άσσος /'asos/.

    I cannot understand "ακολουθούμενα από δασύ πνεύμα". Could you give an example? Is that ancient Greek grammar?

    "δασύ πνεύμα" = "δασεία"
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  3. Acestor

    Acestor Senior Member

    Athens
    Greek
    Hello

    This is ancient Greek. You will find that these consonants may be called "doubled consonants", though "double consonants" is the term found in many books, as opposed to "single consonants". The "δασύ πνεύμα" is, of course, "rough breathing".

    Here's some fascinating reading :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_phonology#Doubled_consonants
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_breathing
    3.4 Double consonants (in http://books.google.gr/books?id=WJbd0m6YaFkC&pg=PA564#v=onepage&q&f=false)
    I also recommend Vox Graeca, but there are key pages missing in Chapter I about the consonants in the Google books preview.
     
  4. Άσχημη Κούκλα

    Άσχημη Κούκλα New Member

    Serbian
    So, I was right in my assumption that "rough breathing" has to do with "aspiration"... Thank youuu, you helped me a lot! :)
     
  5. Άσχημη Κούκλα

    Άσχημη Κούκλα New Member

    Serbian
    Ευχαριστώ πολύ! :) It's ok, I understood what "δασύ πνεύμα" means, it is the same as aspiration, when a sound "h" is heard in the pronunciation of some consonants. Thank youuu! : ))
     
  6. Δημήτρης

    Δημήτρης Senior Member

    Κύπρος - Cyprus
    Cypriot Greek
    The quote possibly refers to Cypriot Greek, where the spelling convention of "double consonants" represents aspirated voiceless stops, eg ππ is /p/ as in prescribed English <pin>, with a puff of air/a "h"/aspiration, while a single π is /p/ as in <spin>, a /p/ without aspiration.
    When it comes to fricatives (/s/, /θ/, /δ/ etc) and nasals (/n/, /m/ etc), "double consonants" are pronounced twice as long, but otherwise the same as "single" ones.

    Linguistically, the term "double consonant" is not accurate, and it also means something else in Greece (namely, it refers to ψ and ξ, that are letters that represent consonant clusters rather than single sounds), but in Cypriot dialectology, that's how the term is used.
     

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