В Москве меня ждал мой муж и мой маленький сын

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by wonlon, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. wonlon Senior Member

    Hong Kong
    Chinese - Cantonese
    In a passage, a grandmother spoke to her granddaughter:

    "В Москве меня ждал мой муж и мой маленький сын - твой папа. Я очень любила их, скучала и хотела скорее вернуться в Москву."

    Shouldn't ждал be in the plural?

    ***
    Nice to meet you all again! I haven't been here since January. Since then, I haven't not worked so hard on Russian because of the lack of new self-study plan. And I concentrated on my Korean learning. But I started picking up Russian 3 months ago, still planning how to move on in Russian.
     
  2. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    No, not necessarily. It can be in the singular as well, in Russian.
     
  3. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Мой's are also superfluous here, unless it is important in some special context.
     
  4. wonlon Senior Member

    Hong Kong
    Chinese - Cantonese
    If it can be singular, which noun should the verb agree with?

    e.g.
    ждал/ла(?) мой муж и мая маленькая дочь / (or reverse order) мой муж и мая маленькая дочь ждал/ла?
     
  5. Ahu Lee Senior Member

    Moscow, RF
    Russian (Moscow)
    the verb should always agree with the closest\first one. E.g.:
    В Москве меня ждал (мой) муж и (моя) маленькая дочь (or В Москве меня ждали (мой) муж и (моя) маленькая дочь)
    В Москве меня ждала (моя) маленькая дочь и (мой) муж (or В Москве меня ждали (моя) маленькая дочь и (мой) муж)

    However, I'm not sure we can say В москве меня (мой) муж и (моя) маленькая дочь ждала. (I'd say ждали, i.e. В москве меня (мой) муж и (моя) маленькая дочь ждали, in this "reverse order" case)



     
  6. covar Senior Member

    Russian
    В Москве меня ждал мой муж и (ждал) мой маленький сын - твой папа. (skipped word ждал)
    В Москве меня ждала моя дочь и (ждал) её маленький сын. (skipped word ждал)
    В Москве меня ждал мой сын и (ждала) его невеста. (skipped word ждала)
     
  7. wonlon Senior Member

    Hong Kong
    Chinese - Cantonese
    Мой муж и мая маленькая дочь ждала меня в Москве.

    I reverse the word order just to make sure that the rule is to agree with the noun closest to the verb. Isn't it?:)
     
  8. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    In this case the rule is not applicable, the whole phrase looks very bad. Better to use Plural here.
     
  9. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian

    Yes, I agree with Maroseika. The sentence is totally wrong in this form. You have to really keep the order, the way it is in the original sentence.
     
  10. wonlon Senior Member

    Hong Kong
    Chinese - Cantonese
    But if there is a sentence with order like this:

    Noun 1 и Noun 2 + Verb

    The verb, if singular, should agree with Noun 2, which is closer to it?
     
  11. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Better to avoid such constructions and rephrase it or use Plural. There is no good way to say it in Russian with two nouns or different genders preceding the verb in Singular. Plural may sound a bit too bookish or official, so in your case I'd say: Муж с дочкой ждали меня в Москве.
    The more so that semantically your variant is also not very good, because presumes that your husband and your daugther waited you separately from each other.
     
  12. Axel_Carvalho

    Axel_Carvalho Junior Member

    Kiev, Ukraine
    Russian, Ukrainian
    Not necessarily. This word order just emphasizes where the action took place and could be understood as: "It was in Moscow, that/where my husband and daughter were waiting for me."
     
  13. turkjey5 Senior Member

    English - USA
    So, are you saying that both agreement with the first one and using a plural verb are are acceptable?
     
  14. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Plural is acceptable in both cases, but Single is very bad when the independent nouns are of different genders. There is just no good way to say it (it presumes ждал дочь, ждала муж), so better avoid it.
     
  15. Ahu Lee Senior Member

    Moscow, RF
    Russian (Moscow)
    Sorry, I'm not sure I understood your question (what IS the agreement you're talking about?) Anyway, in that post I said that we can use both the singular and plural forms of the verb in cases like these. And if we go for the singular one whether it has a "masculine"(no ending) or "feminine" ending (like in my previous example if two or more objects are of different genders) is determined by the object\noun which goes next to the verb (is the closest to it). Does it make sense to you?
     
  16. turkjey5 Senior Member

    English - USA
    to summarize: all of the following are correct

    the verb should always agree with the closest\first one. E.g.:
    В Москве меня ждал (мой) муж и (моя) маленькая дочь
    В Москве меня ждала (моя) маленькая дочь и (мой) муж

    A plural verb is also correct:
    В Москве меня ждали (мой) муж и (моя) маленькая дочь)
    В Москве меня ждали (моя) маленькая дочь и (мой)муж)

    The reason I asked is because
    a plural verb does not agree with the closest/first one and you had said "the verb should always agree with the closest\first one."
     
  17. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Both sentences are wrong. There is no such a rule, that the verb agrees in gender with the closest noun (subject). When the genders are different the verb is used only in Plural:

    Par. 190, clause 2-2б:
    Cказуемое ставится во множественном числе, если возникает необходимость согласования в роде и подлежащие принадлежат к разному грамматическому роду, например: …Ни одно государство или группа государств не должны получить военное преимущество...

    So, only this is correct:
    В Москве меня ждали (мой) муж и (моя) маленькая дочь)
    В Москве меня ждали (моя) маленькая дочь и (мой)муж)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  18. alexzzzz Junior Member

    I would use plural, and consider the singular form here as a very doubtful choice.
     
  19. e2-e4 X Senior Member

    Русский
    Quite the opposite from my side. :)
     
  20. alexzzzz Junior Member

    The singular form sounds to me as if the husband and the son were the same person.
     
  21. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    One more applicable rule (par. 190, cl. 5):
    Сказуемое ставится в форме множественного числа, независимо от своего местоположения, если оно обозначает действие, совершаемое несколькими субъектами, например: А вечером ко мне понагрянули и Черемницкий, и новый городничий Порохонцев (Лесков); В душе его боролись желание забыть теперь о несчастном брате и сознание того, что это будет дурно (Л. Толстой).
     
  22. e2-e4 X Senior Member

    Русский
    It's interesting that «В Москве меня ждали мой муж и мой маленький сын» sounds badly, while the same sentence with «ждал» does okey (to me). I guess it's because the subject is of the same nature and its action is the same in the sentence, which is not true for the examples in the paragraph.

    Rules can't cover just everything, true. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  23. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Fortunately, in the present case it does cover.
    Actually, when the nouns are of the same gender, both Singular and Plral verbs are possible. But there is a nuance, which seems to me quite evident: Plural presumes common action (they waited for me together), Singular - separate action (В Москве его ждал теплый прием друзей и старый должок).
     
  24. Garbuz Senior Member

    Russian
    Однозначно, согласование во множ. числе.
    В Москве ее ждали муж и сын / муж и дочь / дочь и сын / муж и дети и т.д.

    Это в английском есть так наз. proximity rule when the verb is adjusted to the nearest noun: There is a book and a few pencils on the desk.
     
  25. e2-e4 X Senior Member

    Русский
    I came to think it's not as badly as I thought, not bad at all. Sorry.
    Yes. In fact, I'd agree with the analysis of covar.
     

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