У патроне (грузинское выражение)

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by Angloaussie, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Angloaussie Member

    Bath, UK
    English - British
    фраза из сказки Викторий Токаревой "Мои враги". Вот контекст:

    В Грузии есть выражение «У патроне». Значит, без хозяина. Женщина без хозяина как бездомная собака. Любой может кинуть камень.

    Hi, can anyone tell me if 'У патроне' is a transliteration of the Georgian expression or a translation of the Georgian into Russian? Any views on how it can be translated into English would be gratefully received!

    Thank you.
  2. gvozd

    gvozd Senior Member

    I'm sure it is a transliteration of the Georgian expression into Russian. We can't translate it into English, we ought to make a transliteration from Georgian into English. Ooh patrone, maybe.

  3. Maroseika Moderator

    Yes, it is Georgian, however Tokareva's transliteration is not precise. There is a word პატრონი (patroni) - owner, a loan from a European language, but it cannot have ending -e in any grammatical case. უ (у) is a prefix meaning without.
    So correct word should be უპატრონი (upatroni) - ownerless.
    Cf. უპატრონო ბავშვი (upatroni bavshvi) - waif, lit. ownerless child.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  4. oirobi Senior Member

    Yes, Maroseika's correct in saying that the transcription is incorrect ))

    Two notes, though:

    1. In Georgian, there is no postposition "without". Instead they use a circumfix "u-o". For instance, rdze "milk" - urdzeo "without milk" (adjective) or urdzeod "w/o milk" (adverb). This circumfix sometimes surfaces as a prefix "u" (cf. udzinarta უძინართა - sleepless))
    2. The correct form is უპატრონო - "upatrono", not "upatroni" (უპატრონო ბავშვი - upatronО bavshvi)
  5. Maroseika Moderator

    Thank you for correction, of course it is -ო, I forgot it is adjective.
  6. Angloaussie Member

    Bath, UK
    English - British
    Wow, thanks so much everyone - I was really tearing my hair out over this one!

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