У патроне (грузинское выражение)

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by Angloaussie, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Angloaussie Member

    Bath, UK
    English - British
    фраза из сказки Викторий Токаревой "Мои враги". Вот контекст:

    В Грузии есть выражение «У патроне». Значит, без хозяина. Женщина без хозяина как бездомная собака. Любой может кинуть камень.

    Hi, can anyone tell me if 'У патроне' is a transliteration of the Georgian expression or a translation of the Georgian into Russian? Any views on how it can be translated into English would be gratefully received!

    Thank you.
  2. gvozd Senior Member

    I'm sure it is a transliteration of the Georgian expression into Russian. We can't translate it into English, we ought to make a transliteration from Georgian into English. Ooh patrone, maybe.

  3. Maroseika Moderator

    Yes, it is Georgian, however Tokareva's transliteration is not precise. There is a word პატრონი (patroni) - owner, a loan from a European language, but it cannot have ending -e in any grammatical case. უ (у) is a prefix meaning without.
    So correct word should be უპატრონი (upatroni) - ownerless.
    Cf. უპატრონო ბავშვი (upatroni bavshvi) - waif, lit. ownerless child.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  4. oirobi Senior Member

    Yes, Maroseika's correct in saying that the transcription is incorrect ))

    Two notes, though:

    1. In Georgian, there is no postposition "without". Instead they use a circumfix "u-o". For instance, rdze "milk" - urdzeo "without milk" (adjective) or urdzeod "w/o milk" (adverb). This circumfix sometimes surfaces as a prefix "u" (cf. udzinarta უძინართა - sleepless))
    2. The correct form is უპატრონო - "upatrono", not "upatroni" (უპატრონო ბავშვი - upatronО bavshvi)
  5. Maroseika Moderator

    Thank you for correction, of course it is -ო, I forgot it is adjective.
  6. Angloaussie Member

    Bath, UK
    English - British
    Wow, thanks so much everyone - I was really tearing my hair out over this one!

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