голубой (гей)

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by gentilhom, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    I know that the word голубой means "deep blue", but my dictionary indicates also that this is a word for a male homosexual. I would like to know whether it is an insulting word (can I safely ask someone whom I suspect to be gay : ты голубой ?).
     
  2. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    No, for gays this word is not insulting.
     
  3. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    Can it be used as an adjective as in : a gay meeting голубое собрание ?
     
  4. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    I have to disagree with Maroseika. In my opinion any slang word (and "голубой" is slang) would be insulting. Гей is an appropriate term, I would stick to that.

    BTW,
    голубой is light blue, not deep blue.
     
  5. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    No. Gramatically it might be собрание голубых, but this would definitely sound derogatory.
     
  6. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    I see, caution is necessary.
     
  7. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Maybe you are right, although the dictionaries of Ozhegov and Yefremova say голубой is just colloquial, and only the dictionary of Kuznetzov calls it slangy. But why slang is obligatorily insulting?
    However I agree, that гей is the most neutral term.
     
  8. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    I agree, the word in itself is not insulting, it could be even endearing; however, in the majority of contexsts it becomes insulting. I consider it similar to хохол: there is nothing insulting in the word per se, yet in the majority of situations it just sounds derogaroty,
     
  9. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    The second dictionary indicates that this adjective also means noble, aristocratic (in French we also say blue blood for nobility). I wonder how the colour blue came to be associated with homosexuality. Anything to do with aristocratic mores?
     
  10. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    хохол ? What does that mean ?
     
  11. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    No, just a coincidence. There are several versions on the etymology of this word, but none of them refers to the notion of noblesse.
    Хохол is a Ukranian, due to topknots on the head Ukrainian cossacks used to wear in the past.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  12. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    It still seems to me the term голубой is rather "a term from a detached view" than a derogatory one. I mean that rather someone who is not gay will use it, though quite neutrally. At least there is a lot of really derogatory terms which can be used to insult gays.
     
  13. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    I suspect this usage of «голубой, голубые» is secondary after «голубки» ("pigeons"). Also, I would say the word «гей» still hasn't reached a neutral status — it may be used, of course, but I would prefer the term «голубой» in most not official situations. «Гей» just sounds too foreign and unpleasant.
     
  14. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    Either your dictionay is wrong or you did not quote it correctly. The adjective itself does not have the meaning of "noble". We have an established expression голубых кровей (lit. of blue bloods) meaning aristocratic, but it has nothing to do with gay.
     
  15. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    Голубая кровь.
    О дворянском, аристократическом происхождении кого-л. Голубые магистрали. Публиц.
     
  16. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    They presume the usage such as: У него голубая кровь, он голубых кровей = Он благородного происхождения.
    As for голубые магистрали, this is just an error of formatting at gramota.ru, and it should read as follows:

    Голубой. Жарг. Относящийся к гомосексуалистам, связанный с ними. Голубые проблемы. Голубое движение. Голубые отношения.
    Голубая кровь. О дворянском, аристократическом происхождении кого-л.
    Голубые магистрали. Публиц. О больших реках.
    Голубой песец. Порода песцов серовато-дымчатого цвета.
    Etc.
     
  17. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    Thank you for the explanations
     
  18. Colora Junior Member

    USA, Denver, CO
    Byelorussian
    I would not choose this word, because in this context "голубой" is near the same as fag or faggot. "Are you gay?" Вы (ты) гей? is the safest way to ask someone what is his sexual orientation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  19. learnerr Senior Member

    Russian
    Neither would I. Using this word "neutrally" would in most contexts sound very bizarre to me, I would not hear it neutral but pejorative. "Гей" is the neutral word to use; "гей-клуб", "гей-парад" are all fine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  20. ahvalj

    ahvalj Senior Member

    In the most neutral contexts I would try to avoid both and use something rather comic like e. g. «альтернативно ориентированный» or so. To me «гей» definitely does not sound as a neutral word — too foreign and artificial.
     
  21. learnerr Senior Member

    Russian
    Now that I think of it further, yes there are contexts where "гей" might not sound neutral to me either: like, "эти люди геи" sounds questionable to me as far as neutrality is concerned. Not sure what I would use, that depends greatly. Being "foreign" or "artificial", though, is not my objection against it – perhaps, because I'm younger and for me this word "had always existed", so to say.
     
  22. gentilhom

    gentilhom Senior Member

    Girona Espagne
    français
    Even in English or in French you may find people who dislike the word gay because for them it does not describe all homosexuals, but only those who parade in the streets, go to the bars and lead a promiscuous life in saunas and select clubs. I think the word applies mainly to homosexuals who are within the liberal, globalized System and adopt its so-called "values" of consumption and ostentatious protest and transgression.

    [........]
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013

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