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закредитовывают

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by tristein, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. tristein Junior Member

    US
    American English
    Hello,

    I'm unable to find this word in the dictionary. It occurs in the following sentence.

    «Мы видим социальную опасность указанных продуктов в том, что банки в последнее время проводят агрессивный маркетинг, закредитовывают семьи и ввергают их в бедность, — возмущается Янин.

    Does it mean that the banks gave people loans that they couldn't repay?

    Thank you in advance!
     
  2. igusarov

    igusarov Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    Hello,
    The verb "закредитовывать" is constructed as an imperfective (i.e. continuing or repetitive action) present tense of the verb "кредитовать" with the sense "to give excessive (extra, undesired) loans". The key here is the prefix: one of the meanings of "за-" is "to carry the action too far, beyond comfortable and reasonable limits".
    Hence, the sentence goes about the banks pushing people to take more loans than they actually need, and it is implied that people would likely face some difficulties handling those extra loans.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  3. slavic_one

    slavic_one Senior Member

    Prague, Czech Republic
    Croatian (štokavski, jekavski)
    Yes. It's form (expresing repetition of an action) of a verb кредитовать with a prefix за-.
     
  4. tristein Junior Member

    US
    American English
    It's very interesting how the Russian language can convey this sense of, as you say "to carry the action too far, beyond comfortable and reasonable limits" with a precise and pointed prefix. Wonderful! Thank you for your explanation.
     
  5. igusarov

    igusarov Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    You're welcome! :) Why, the English language can do the same with the prefix "over-", like in "overdo", right?
     
  6. Sobakus Senior Member

    Well, the prefix only changes the meaning, it does not convey anything precise by itself. This word is coined by analogy with such words as забить, застрелить, затоптать - to hit, shoot, trample to death, i.e. the banks credit people into poverty.
     
  7. tristein Junior Member

    US
    American English
    Good point: English can do the same thing with over-. But it seems so much less flexible and productive than за- and other Russian prefixes. But maybe it's really that Russian seems to have much more muscular verbs. Another good point, that meaning of за- depends on its linguistic context. I sometimes forget good stuff like that. :)
     
  8. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Yes, this is what it means, Tristein, but it it is kind of bad Russian -- sort of Runglish. :D (they give them excessive credit -- trapping them at the same time within the financial liabilities)
     
  9. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Why bad and why Runglish?? Of course, this is an occasionalism, but it is build following the standard pattern:
    За- придает значение "довести или дойти до отрицательного состояния - испорченности, исчерпанности, переутомления и т.п. - с помощью действия, названного словами, от которых соответствующие глаголы образованы (загонять, загубить, задушить, заездить, закормить, заморозить, затаскать, замучить и т.п.)" (словарь Ефремовой).
     
  10. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Well, it is a pure calque with Russian suffixing and endings. ;) Unfortunately phrases like that become standard, after a while.
     
  11. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    I don't understand why "unfortunately", but this is off-topic, of course. However I don't think this is any kind of calque. What is the English source of this calque you guess?
     
  12. igusarov

    igusarov Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    I think I can see LilianaB's point. Most good-looking examples of the verbs with "за-" are perfective. But we're talking imperfective verbs here. As soon as you try to construct an imperfective verb, you get nonsense like "загубливать" (вместо "губить"), "задушивать" (вместо "душить"). It does look a bit strange: we've taken an imperfective verb as the base, added the prefix "за-" which turned the verb perfective, and then we have to add some suffix to make this verb imperfective again. And what we finally got is a verb with almost the same sense as the original base, only more complex and sometimes weird.

    However I don't quite follow a calque of what are they supposed to be... All these are quite natural Russian rules.

    On the other hand, there are examples of good (well, at least not weird) imperfective verbs with "за-".
    Self-verbs are easy: затовариваться, завираться.
    Transitive verbs without "-ся": загаживать помещение, занашивать одежду до дыр, зачитывать книгу до убитого состояния, заговаривать зубы, застуживать горло, забрасывать костёр землёй.
     
  13. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    I think you are referring to the verbs with prefix за- having different sense - to carry an action to the end: губить - загубить, душить - задушить. Such verbs are really hardly can be imperfective, because their aim is final condition. But what we are dealing here is prefix за- meaning carrying an action out not to the end, but to its opposition, and such actions can be imperfective, because the aim is achieved before the end of the action:
    кормить - закормить - закармливать
    целовать - зацеловать - зацеловывать
    *ездить (transitive) - заездить - заезживать
    кредитовать - закредитовать - закредитовывать

    So the base of imperfective verb is prefixal perfective verb rather than the prefix-free motivating one.
     
  14. igusarov

    igusarov Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    No. I was referring to the verbs you quoted from the dictionary in post #9...
    It's just that the verbs "загубить", "задушить", "забить" mean both "to carry the action to its completion" and "to carry the action too far until it lead to a negative effect", because the completion of these particular actions is death (which is generally considered negative). )
     
  15. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian

    Well, as we can see, at least part of such verbs are quite possible in the imperfect form, because negative effect is not instant but time-expanded. And закредитовывать is definately among them.
    By the way, unlike the most part of verbs with momentary negative effect, all the verbs with time-expaned negative effect have corresponding verbal nouns with the same prefix: закармливание, зацеловывание, забалтывание, закредитовывание.
     

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