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так неразумна

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by seitt, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Hi

    Again from the same song (an all-time favourite of mine):
    Простите пехоте,
    Что так неразумна бывает она:

    Re так, in this context does it mean "so" in the sense of "so very" i.e. expressing a very great degree of unreasonableness (perhaps similar to до такой степени..., что, but leaving the rest unsaid)? Or does it simply mean "in this way" i.e. exhibiting a certain kind of unreasonableness which is not necessarily very great?

    Many thanks,

    Simon
     
  2. Dogcat Junior Member

    Russian
    In this case "так" means "so very" or even "this"/"настолько" (like in "The grass was this high"). Although the second meaning ("this"/"настолько") usually requires that the phrase is followed by "что" (for example "Врачи считают болезнь настолько серьёзной, что приходится опасаться за жизнь больного." или "Его болезнь так серьёзна, что приходится опасаться за его жизнь").
     
  3. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    I'd say it rather means not 'so much', but just 'in this way', just because it goes to death. This is the only exhibition of its unreasonableness, but at the same time its supreme degree.

    From Д. Быков's book about Okudzhava: "Массовой популярности среди ветеранов не получили ни «Простите пехоте», ни «Ах, война, она не год еще протянет», ни даже «Старая солдатская песня» – ни один из тех окуджавовских шедевров, с которыми связана дегероизация войны, где сказана печальная правда о ней. «Заманчива должность твоя», пехота «неразумна» – нет, нет, нехорошо! Должность почетна, героична, пехота ве-ли-ко-леп-на, она царица полей!".
     
  4. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    You mean the death both of the пехота itself and of their enemies in battle, don't you? Just making sure I haven't misunderstood ...
     
  5. Basalitan New Member

    Russian
    Because it leads to all kinds of misfortune brought along by war.
     
  6. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    No, only their own death. No enemies, no battles, no war hardships, just pure picture of the men going to die - from (and for) those who stay.
     
  7. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Thank you - so isn't неразумна ironic? Surely it is the last thing one would seriously say about someone who dies for his country?
     
  8. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Depends on what exactly you mean by "ironic". I'd say it is not ironic, but one should not understand неразумный like foolish, unreasonable or unwise. Пехота неразумна because they sacrifice themsleves for others. Actually this is very difficult word for translation, because in some contexts (such as this one) it is strongly coloured emotionally. In this case it is more like безрассудный, неблагоразумный, самоотверженный, поступающий наперекор здравому смыслу.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  9. rdimd Junior Member

    Riga
    Latvian, Slow Russian
    Well, it looks not too reasonable - to die for some idea, if regarded from the individual's point of view. Even for his/her country. Especially, if it is exactly about dying for the victory and not about defeating enemy and returning home, as it was during WW2 in former USSR.
    Seitt, you should remember that from outsider's (or western or 'logical') point of view many things related to WW2 in Russia could seem unreasonable/irrational/illogical. Also, from this poet's point of view. But it is as it is, people prefer to react emotionally, not from logical point of view.
    Some people don't understand them, some even don't like them for some reasons, but that's the way it is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  10. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks, much clearer now.
     

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