אם כבר

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by airelibre, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    What does אם כבר mean and how is it used?
     
  2. bazq Senior Member

    Hebrew
    It's part of an expression: "אם כבר אז כבר" = "if the situation isso (has already come to this point), might as well..." something like YOLO :).
    But also:
    אם כבר קנית למה לא קנית גם לי? using כבר emphasizes the dismay.

    This usage of כבר is similar to the Yiddish "שוין" and German "schon"

    אם כבר אז כבר is a mirror translation of the German "Wenn schon denn schon". I think there's a parallel Yiddish expression.
     
  3. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    I guess it might change a bit upon context, but the general meaning is: if something has already happened/is already happening, then...

    Sometimes speakers cut out the clause, if they know what the clause is about. This is common, for example, to shorten אם כבר מדברים על זה, which is equivalent to דרך אגב (by the way).

    Examples:
    אם כבר אני בחנות בגדים, אני אחפש מתנה ליוסי
    אם כבר שילמת, תגמור את כל מה שיש בצלחת
    אם כבר (אתה מדבר ככה), בוא תראה כמה אתה יודע
    אבי: אני הולך למכולת. חנה: אז אם כבר, תוציא את הכלב לטיול
     
  4. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Thanks but what about in discussions/arguments? I can't think of actual examples right now, but it seems that someone says something and then the other goes, אם כבר. It seems like they're saying "yes, but..." but I'm not sure.
     
  5. bazq Senior Member

    Hebrew
    You can also use it in the meaning of "if anything", but very strictly:
    א:זו ההוכחה לטענה
    ב: אם כבר, זו ההוכחה שאתה לא יודע על מה אתה מדבר "(This isn't proof.) if anything, this proves you have no idea what you're talking about".
     
  6. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Is that also short for something, like the phrases ystab provided?
     
  7. bazq Senior Member

    Hebrew
    Yes, אם כבר (זו הוכחה למשהו) זו הוכחה ש.
     
  8. airelibre

    airelibre Senior Member

    English - London
    Ok thanks.
     
  9. ystab Senior Member

    Hebrew
    You could say that, but it might sound forced:
    א: זו ההוכחה לטענה
    ב: אם כבר (הזכרת הוכחה לטענה), זו ההוכחה שאתה לא יודע על מה אתה מדבר.

    I'd go with bazq's translation if anything in this context.
     

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